080401

SL Education Roundtable April 1st, 2008 "What is Google really up to, regarding a virtual environment, and how will that impact Higher Education?"

AJ Brooks: HIII!!!! AJ Brooks: Beck - what a surprise to see you here! LOL Movies1963 Beck: hi AJ, I saw the listing for this in the events search Movies1963 Beck: lol AJ Brooks: come on over, everyone; feel free to have a seat at the table Claire Nostram: byte Lane Erde: Hello AJ Brooks: there's plenty of room - every time someone takes a chair, another one appears AJ Brooks: we still have a few minutes, so we'll let folks show up AJ Brooks: sl is being VERY naughty today Zotarah Shepherd: Hello everyone Dayna Wycliffe: Hi Zotarah Shepherd: Hi AJ Claire Nostram: hi LaBelle Rossini: Bonasera Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Dayna LaBelle Rossini: Bona serata AJ Brooks: boa tarde Zotarah Shepherd: Bonasera LaBelle LaBelle Rossini: Hi Zo! AJ Brooks: well give folks a couple more minutes AJ Brooks: since sl is being uncooperative with TPs and all Zotarah Shepherd: I like how there is always another chair. AJ Brooks: this is part of the MystiTool AJ Brooks: not the freebie, though - the paid version - which is only 395, I think Zotarah Shepherd: Yes I know but I never used it until I came here. *grins* AJ Brooks: oh - cool AJ Brooks: I also like the AV follow rezzer AJ Brooks: that snice too Zotarah Shepherd: I have not used that yet. AJ Brooks: ok - why don't we get started? AJ Brooks: It’s nice to see new faces Lane Erde: what does the AV follow rezzer do? Zotarah Shepherd: I think it would be great for giving tours. AJ Brooks: that’s always positive AJ Brooks: This is the SL Education Roundtable AJ Brooks: we meet here every Tuesday at 2:30pm SLT AJ Brooks: the topics vary by the week Zotarah Shepherd: LaBelle come sit *smiles* AJ Brooks: some weeks we don’t' have any AJ Brooks: just come and chat LaBelle Rossini: Bene? AJ Brooks: ask any questions you might have Zotarah Shepherd: You're welcome. AJ Brooks: although we do keep an educational focus AJ Brooks: both Teen Grid and higher ed here on the main grid LaBelle Rossini: Well, there was a very heady discussion yesterday LaBelle Rossini: I am still trying to recover from that one LaBelle Rossini: So I'll wait to see where this one is going AJ Brooks: today we are going to be starting off with the topic" What is Google REALLY up to, regarding virtual environments, and how will that impact higher education" LaBelle Rossini: lol AJ Brooks: but we can expand that to just "education" LaBelle Rossini: ok AJ Brooks: anyway AJ Brooks: the way we usually start off is AJ Brooks: why don't each of you say who you are, where you come from, which school, etc... and what you do AJ Brooks: no need to wait for others, just go ahead and type, we can all read the history later Movies1963 Beck: I'm movies, I do educational tv broadcast for grades k-20 Birdie Newcomb: Birdie Newcomb, Beach College Academy AJ Brooks: I am AJ Kelton, the Director of Technology Services at the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University in Northern NJ. Birdie Newcomb: Administrator AJ Brooks: I also and the program director for this island Robin Mochi: Reference & Distance Services Librarian at the Portland Center Library of GFU AJ Brooks: BIRDIE!!! Fim Fischer: hi everyone Kichirou Watanabe: Hi, I'm Kichirou, studied at the University of Furtwangen, Germany LaBelle Rossini: I am a business consultant and I teach economics at U of Milano and Vienna Claire Nostram: I'm Claire - an administrator in the Residential Ed department and want to use SL for our students AJ Brooks: welcome LaBelle Rossini: bling off Zotarah Shepherd: I work on the teen grid and here too. I am working on my MA in Education and right now on a lit review. I live in California and attend Sonoma State University. AJ Brooks: I see some typing hands still, so I'll wait another minute Dayna Wycliffe: Educational technology consultant, higher ed instructor (online and f2f), working on my doctorate Dayna Wycliffe: Based in NY Lane Erde: I'm from the University of Portsmouth, UK. I lecture in Computing and am looking at the affordance of SL for teaching AJ Brooks: Great - welcome everyone AJ Brooks: Please, have a seat - there is plenty of room mTea Box: Linda Woods, AT&T Education Advocate. I train teachers and librarians on the use of technology. AJ Brooks: ok - one more quick question Zotarah Shepherd: Oh Hi Birdie AJ Brooks: How did you find out about today’s meeting - before you answer, one second Birdie Newcomb: Hi Zo AJ Brooks: did you see it in events, in an email (to which list) or from a group - and if a group - was it an IM or notice? Fim Fischer: Hi, I am Fim Fischer. I currently start a Edutainment Community on Second Life Grid. AJ Brooks: this is a little market research Birdie Newcomb: SLED list, those pesky notices Movies1963 Beck: in the events under discussion LaBelle Rossini: Notice and IM Robin Mochi: SLED list Claire Nostram: sled mTea Box: Email SLED? LaBelle Rossini: ISTE list AJ Brooks: and the rest of you? Zotarah Shepherd: Bridging meeting Dayna Wycliffe: Must have been SLED calendar Kichirou Watanabe: used the search for events Roja Kirax: email - very new and looking forward to it. AJ Brooks shout: Come on over, Roja AJ Brooks: please - do have a seat AJ Brooks: plenty of room for all AJ Brooks: ok AJ Brooks: so - I'm going to put Movies on the spot - and I hope he doesn't mind. But in the last few weeks he has spoken up about this topic and its what prompted me to put it on the docket Lane Erde: SL search AJ Brooks: so - Movies, what do you know about what is going on at Google AJ Brooks: and about how it might impact education? Movies1963 Beck: I think Google came in to get educated here in SL on the virtual world Movies1963 Beck: I think they're either building their own or.....they're revamping everything and once the bugs are worked out they'll port everything from SL into their computers Birdie Newcomb: That's fitting with their stated purpose LaBelle Rossini: Geez AJ Brooks: do you think it will be just like sl AJ Brooks: where we can create AJ Brooks: community AJ Brooks: money exchange AJ Brooks: and what leads you to believe all this Movies1963 Beck: I think it'll be has much like sl has can be only a lot less bugs AJ Brooks: welcome - new folks - have a seat Jarod Godel: Does SL need money exchange in regards to community? Movies1963 Beck: they've been working with the Univ of Arizona quietly on a virtual world AJ Brooks: well - on something Kichirou Watanabe: maybe they'll integrate Google maps and Google earth into it AJ Brooks: no confirmation is a virtual world as strictly defined Jarod Godel: (hI, Jarod Godel, web developer for a community college, have developed out own in-house e-learning system, want to use sl for e-learning.) Movies1963 Beck: they also have been working on and have a 3d design tool to build 3d models Zorro Nagy: hi everybody Jarod Godel: SketchUp Birdie Newcomb: They already have Google Earth Zorro Nagy: sorry I’m late Movies1963 Beck: they have Google earth but they don’t have a world built into it Movies1963 Beck: think of SL implanted on top of Google earth LaBelle Rossini: hm AJ Brooks: so where does the creation come in LaBelle Rossini: hm hm AJ Brooks: what about building an island, like I built this one AJ Brooks: creating our OWN learning communities AJ Brooks: business with currency exchange AJ Brooks: all the other stuff that makes SL SL Movies1963 Beck: I think they'll embrace a community just like what we have for creativity and education AJ Brooks: right click on an empty chair and select SIT Jarod Godel: SL is overkill for education. AJ Brooks: well - if someone can make an SL that is not as buggy as SL - people will flock there AJ Brooks: especially if stuff can be ported Movies1963 Beck: yes AJ Brooks: SL is in NO WAY overkill for education LaBelle Rossini: lol Movies1963 Beck: they created their own version of "Office Suite" AJ Brooks: yes - but its not as good -and they didn't create it - they bought it Jarod Godel: Do you really NEED Gor on the same grid as your college? AJ Brooks: well - acquired it AJ Brooks: yes Movies1963 Beck: if you get kids used to your brand from an early age they become a life long customer AJ Brooks: yes we do need gor on the same grid AJ Brooks: and everything else - that what makes it a rich experience of learning Mercury Barnes: Yes..Gor, etc., is important. AJ Brooks: that is why I can teach my students about social issues AJ Brooks: etc..... Fim Fischer: oh sure AJ Brooks: but that’s another conversation AJ Brooks: back to Google Fim Fischer roils eyes AJ Brooks: so - movies - what leads you to think all of this? Movies1963 Beck: a huge indicator is this AJ Brooks:? LaBelle Rossini: ? Movies1963 Beck: Cory left Linden Labs because of a falling out, two months later Philip himself resigns has CEO........I think they were told by a huge quiet partner to leave so that partner can put in place their own team, yes Philip is still the chair of the board but the day to day operations and business is not his area of expertise LaBelle Rossini: Long sentence Fim Fischer: you can forbid Gor etc. on your education sim, that’s what I do. AJ Brooks: ok - so how does that point to Google and what they are doing Mercury Barnes: good? AJ Brooks: These are simply business signs that the company is doing well AJ Brooks: growing LaBelle Rossini:? AJ Brooks: moving on LaBelle Rossini: Oh really ... Movies1963 Beck: the biggest thing Google did to get my attention was to have a sim built, they came in, got working knowledge of SL on a day to day basis and left to go make it run much better AJ Brooks: Philip stepping down was the right thing to do at this point, as CEO that is Mercury Barnes: They have been very aggressive about trying to improve stability, Havok4 and the "hit squads." Fim Fischer: bye everyone, I am not here to listen to someone speculating. Jarod Godel: Fim, Gor's just an example. When I say "overkill" I mean I'd like to be able to have my own micro-grid, so I can dynamically create sims as needed per semester. I think Google + SketchUp + Android may be a promising combination, with more control than what LL allows. AJ Brooks: Movies, I get the first part - but how do you know the second part Fim Fischer: *waves* AJ Brooks: how do you know they left to go make it better? Movies1963 Beck: Philip is too much of an egotist to have stepped down on his own Claire Nostram: Sorry I have to leave - the office staff wants to lock up - good night all Movies1963 Beck: Google will make it better because everything they touch turns to gold Movies1963 Beck: they have the money to make it work AJ Brooks shakes head Mercury Barnes: No, they failed on their first try with social networking. Jarod Godel: Orkut? Mercury Barnes: Yes, died, rolled into "e-mail." AJ Brooks: Although I don't agree with someone leaving because they don’t' agree with the conversation that is the point of conversation, I do believe that we shouldn't speculate Movies1963 Beck: Orkut is useful, just not in the American Market AJ Brooks: what proof is there that this is happening? AJ Brooks: I'm not saying it is NOT AJ Brooks: but I want to see some indication AJ Brooks: Orkut was successful BEFORE Google took it over AJ Brooks: it is HUGE in brasil and still is AJ Brooks: Google didn't make them successful AJ Brooks: I'm a Google guy AJ Brooks: I LOVE Google Movies1963 Beck: Google made it grow much bigger Zorro Nagy: Me also!! AJ Brooks: I use Mail, reader, calendar, docs AJ Brooks: everything Movies1963 Beck: think of this AJ AJ Brooks: but that didn't make it better - it was huge in Brasil - very very successful - Google has a bigger church with more pews AJ Brooks: I'm not saying this would not be a good thing, either - it might Zorro Nagy: But what is your point Aj AJ Brooks: but here is my point. Where is the proof Movies1963 Beck: if they have you won over has an educator you will introduce your student body to SL which in return Google will then win them over AJ Brooks: what are the indications? Mercury Barnes: good? AJ Brooks: I agree, Movies Movies1963 Beck: the indications are the 'Public Works Project" about to begin in here AJ Brooks: I'm not disagreeing with your point that Google could do this bigger, better, etc.. Who knows? AJ Brooks: ok LaBelle Rossini: hm hm AJ Brooks: PWP AJ Brooks: talk about that Movies1963 Beck: Google is anal about "getting around" AJ Brooks: Hey juice Movies1963 Beck: they need a way to ad profit here into SL LaBelle Rossini: What does anal mean in this context, Movies? Movies1963 Beck: one way to do that is Ad revenue AJ Brooks: add or are you saying ads AJ Brooks: as in advertising Jarod Godel: Google's had SketchUp for several years and hasn't done much with it. Given their working with Android, I think we're more inclined to see them leaning away from virtual worlds and toward "augmented reality," overlaying the everyday world with information. Mercury Barnes: They are really working on sprucing up the visuals, knocking off the miscreants, etc., but all of this can be explained by the want to reduce the huge early fall-off they see with new residents. AJ Brooks: ok - Movies and I will shut up now, the rest of you chime in AJ Brooks: :-) Movies1963 Beck: Anal in this context means even this is a virtual world Google wants an infrastructure AJ Brooks: ok - jarod, mercury - good AJ Brooks: others? Topher Zwiers: Am arriving late, would someone mind copying the earlier chat history into an IM? LaBelle Rossini: Sure AJ Brooks: it wont' fit in an IM Movies1963 Beck: please feel free to ask me anything, I type slowly so take that into consideration AJ Brooks: Clearly Movies and I have talked about this before, and we have opinions. Now, what are the rest of you thinking about this? AJ Brooks: or did you come to hear what others had to say about it AJ Brooks: Because Movies and I are no expert on this - I think he'd agree AJ Brooks: we are both working off our knowledge to date AJ Brooks: expertise, etc... Movies1963 Beck: I'm interested in everyone's opinions AJ Brooks: but neither of us works for Google (I know I don't) AJ Brooks: and we don't have insider info (at least I don’t) Jarod Godel: I've been saying Google was the next MMO contender for a couple of years no, but their Android project makes me think they're going to simply bypass virtual worlds. Movies1963 Beck: I don’t work for Google either and yes, I am a HUGE fan of them AJ Brooks: explain what you mean Jarod Aki Shichiroji is Online Jarod Godel: Combined with the fact that Japan already has schools being taught on cell phones, I can't see Google taking a "3D is better than mobile" view. AJ Brooks: jarod? AJ Brooks: ah - there you go AJ Brooks: I didn't see typing hands - sorry Movies1963 Beck: SL along with other virtual worlds was over a Billion Dollar industry last year.....Google won’t let that pass by Robin Mochi: With Android I was expecting to see a move to 3D on Android devices, so Google developing both makes sense to me. Movies1963 Beck: likewise Jarod Godel: Google's had SketchUp for years. Maps longer. They've never done anything with it. I don't think Google targets the small market with high-end systems for 3D worlds. They target the masses, and right now the masses have phones. AJ Brooks: sorry, jarod - that was my fault Jarod Godel: (Well, they've done stuff with maps, sorry.) Movies1963 Beck: SL,There and Kaneva prove there's a market and strong interest in VR AJ Brooks: A billion dollars was invested by companies in making virtual worlds, not a billion was generated IN virtual worlds Topher Zwiers: And, in terms of education, does it appear to anyone else they're more interested in producing a product that has LMS type capabilities - although more social? (Google Sites combined with Orbitz) Jarod Godel: Movies1963, sure, WOW proves that too, but...for entertainment, not education. Movies1963 Beck: those big businesses would never invest that Billion Dollars if there were no return LaBelle Rossini: And? AJ Brooks: AHHH _ finally AJ Brooks: finally AJ Brooks: thanks - topher - for bringing it back to education LaBelle Rossini: What? Movies1963 Beck: Jarod are you an educator Robin Mochi: Exactly the masses have cell phones, Android w/3D makes sense because of that. Student learning on those devices especially in 3D environments could be very rich. Jarod Godel: I'm an IT guy / web developer for a community college. I've developed my school's in-house e-learning system. Jarod Godel: not an educator, but familiar with educational software Movies1963 Beck: is everyone here not connected somehow to education? AJ Brooks: we should ALL be connected somehow - or at least interested AJ Brooks: the point of this roundtable is EDUCATION Movies1963 Beck: if education wasn't a strong market in VR none of us would be sitting here talking about this LaBelle Rossini: What is the point of this question, Movies? LaBelle Rossini: Ah Movies1963 Beck: lol I type slowly AJ Brooks: well - 20 people does not the masses make LaBelle Rossini: Slow typing Mercury Barnes: Heard a Building Service Worker (janitor) asking IT about "What would be the best system for games, especially on-line ones?" -- it's poised for the mass-market (all the kids in HS, especially those not making it to college, nonetheless, have the skills -- 3D is where the web was in the late 90's, early 00's -- the machines and connectivity are in place. Jarod Godel: I'm not saying education an vr don't mix, just vr/google/education MzTere Writer: I like this table AJ Brooks: thanks - I’m happy to talk about the table after the meeting - its pretty cool MzTere Writer: ;-) Birdie Newcomb: Where is Goodle in SL now? Movies1963 Beck: Jarod why do you not see VR/Google and Education fitting togther? Movies1963 Beck: the Google sim is gone Jarod Godel: Because Google is all about 2D. Because Forterra is already dominating that Marketspace. Movies1963 Beck: but do a search under peole and look at all the people with the last name "Google" listed Jarod Godel: Why hasn't Google competed with Blackboard? Movies1963 Beck: Forterra domininates in Inteligance AJ Brooks: now THAT is where I think they are going Mercury Barnes: They recognized that monolithic LMS's are in trouble (and they are). Jarod Godel: forterra is also used by nursing schools Movies1963 Beck: Jarod what school do you work for Jarod Godel: they train nurses to handle paper work with it, iirc Jarod Godel: Wallace Community College in Selma, AL. Topher Zwiers: Jarod... I think Google is getting closer to an LMS type product. Google Sites is close, but still lacks a few critical features. Jarod Godel: Whar school do you work for, Movies? AJ Brooks: oh - one quick housekeeping note - I forget to mentino at the start Movies1963 Beck: then Wallace is here in SL? AJ Brooks: if you have a problem with this public meeting being made into a transcript available for others, you need ot let me know Movies1963 Beck: I dont work for any school, I'm a private contractor Topher Zwiers: Is anyone familiar with or participating in the Google Education advisory group? Jarod Godel: We're not in SL, because it's overkill and unreliable. AJ Brooks: via IM AJ Brooks: not in p[ublic chat, pls Birdie Newcomb: A lot of the Googles here have been here since 2006 Mercury Barnes: Not overkill, but unreliable, yes. :) Jarod Godel: We'd run our own sim (and are looking at opensim) AJ Brooks: thats the second time you said it was overkill - why do you say that? AJ Brooks: overkill in what sense AJ Brooks: I think it is not nearly enough!!!!! Movies1963 Beck: why are you personally here in SL then Jarod......is it not to keep your thumb on the pulse of education in SL? Jarod Godel: Because I don't need an entire world to teach classes. AJ Brooks: but some people do Mercury Barnes: But do your students? AJ Brooks: me, for instance AJ Brooks: my students have repeatedly said the best experiecnes they have had weer when they got OFF our sim here Jarod Godel: sure, but that's why I'm all for having a standard protocol AJ Brooks: its what makes the community AJ Brooks: in fact, I"m leading an effort to create a student center for ALL SL studetns Mercury Barnes: off into the greater whole, or another venue? Jarod Godel: so students cn come to the school sim, them go elsewhere Movies1963 Beck: think about the work that's done on the teen grid...a class here in the states was co-taught with a class in Japan.....it was a killer and went over huge Jarod Godel: like we run our own web server. i want to run my own sim AJ Brooks: thats a good idea AJ Brooks: butnot INSTEAD of a public virtula world, right? Mercury Barnes: Fine, but I won't be there, cajoling them, helping them, challenging them.....:) AJ Brooks: in some wya connected to Zotarah Shepherd: SL has so much to offer students. If they just stay on one sim they would be missing out on a lot of educational content. Jarod Godel: Movies, I'm here to see what education is doing in SL. trying to see what e-elearning 2.0 will be like. Jarod Godel: Aj, right. Similar to how Blackboard work as a portal without being a public system AJ Brooks: i think e-learning 2.0 is already here AJ Brooks: :-) Movies1963 Beck: we havent gotten to Web 2.0 but that's another debate AJ Brooks: bu twe DO NOT wnt our studetns to see SL as the same as BB Lane Erde: I think the argument of own SIM v SL is similar to that of own VLE v WWW Jarod Godel: If our school could run a sim, we could get rid of lag and the problems of SL. AJ Brooks: if they do, they will only be here for school stuff Zotarah Shepherd: I would like to give educational tours to students to show them places and have a discussion after to see what they learned. AJ Brooks: brb Movies1963 Beck: true Web 2.0 is moving Gigs of information through a pipe, not 5 megs at best Robin Mochi: e-learning 2.0 is continuing to develop in the US and I believe will contain some kind of 3D evnironment on handheld devices. Lane Erde: there are times when you want to contain students' learning but at other times you want them to roam free, stumble across ideas, follow thoughts and make connections Mercury Barnes: Good Education is "where the ideas that worked best are presented, with a goal of leaving the student with an attitude, sarcastically put, that says, "This sucks, I can do better."" :) Jarod Godel: Aj, no, but students don't see the web as BB. similarly, they wouldn't see their class as the whole of the virtual world. Zotarah Shepherd: hahaha Mercury I agree. Movies1963 Beck: years ago people laughed at GPS devices being used in education, now a lot of classes use them has a learning tool so there will be many kinds of hand held devices that'll be used for learning, not just GPS's or even phones Jarod Godel: I say "overklill" because...it's like this: does Facebook need all the features of BB? Does BB need all the features of Facebook? Jarod Godel: I think similarly Virtual worlds for education don't need all the whistles that virtual worlds for entertain,ent have MzTere Writer: I am in the dark,please, whats' BB? Jarod Godel: Blackboard, online class management software Jarod Godel: but i'm going down another road. Movies1963 Beck: Jarod your talkking about cencoring and education can not happen with cencorship MzTere Writer: ahhh, ithought blackboard-but didnt think software MzTere Writer: thx Movies1963 Beck: programing a person happens with cencorship, not learning AJ Brooks: i'm sorry - my bosses bos just walked in the door AJ Brooks: lol Jarod Godel: Sorry guys. I have to go. Thanks for the meeting. AJ Brooks: she was very impressed with our little group chatting away AJ Brooks: we meet here each week, Jarod Mercury Barnes: Facebook holds no attraction for me, it's the "Chevy" that one get's at 16, but then realizes they want a BMW in College (and Aj is probably going to track us back to Google rumouring). Mercury Barnes: Thanks Jarod. :) AJ Brooks: lol AJ Brooks: i see GRET value in Facebook Movies1963 Beck: Jarod I hope I didnt offend you, it wasnt my intention AJ Brooks: and have used it in a previous class AJ Brooks: when we were theming on perception of self Mercury Barnes: There's nothing wrong with Facebook, and if you do HS, then great, it's a venue, but it's draining away at the College level in terms of importance. Topher Zwiers: I came in a bit late; is the discussion based on a tangible product or report that Google's working on VW? or is it conjecture and wishful thinking? Topher Zwiers: ;-) Mercury Barnes: :) AJ Brooks: yes - Topher, all of the above Movies1963 Beck: all the above Movies1963 Beck: lol AJ Brooks: lol AJ Brooks: stop that AJ Brooks: lol Birdie Newcomb: We're starting a rumor AJ Brooks: what rumor is that? Topher Zwiers: Are there any tangible products besides Googel Earth, Sketchup? LaBelle Rossini: Guys - living in Europe makes it difficult to attend afternoon meetings in SL - I need some sleep now. But I really enjoyed this lively discussion today! Thanks to you all !!! Topher Zwiers: and the rumor I think I heard about a project at Arizona State in collaboration with Google? AJ Brooks: oh - that is NOT a ruomr AJ Brooks: rumor AJ Brooks: there IS a beta project going on a ASU AJ Brooks: that is confirmed AJ Brooks: what it is, exactly, is not clear Topher Zwiers: beta Virtual World. Birdie Newcomb: Beta of what? AJ Brooks: ASU is a big testing bed for Google AJ Brooks: nobody REALLY knows AJ Brooks: its speculation, a la Willy Wonka Mercury Barnes: ASU jumped early into campus Google as mail, CIO is very "Aggressive," to put it mildly. :) Topher Zwiers: I've read that before.. at the same time I saw the Education Advisory committee ifnromatin... Jayne Urqhart: interestingly, there have been no rumours flying since October of last year AJ Brooks: but that just means they wrapped up the whole AJ Brooks: no - very quite AJ Brooks: holes Topher Zwiers: Right.. that's the last I heard anything re: Virtual Worlds & Google - and it wsa in reference to AZ State. Topher Zwiers: I wonder if the relative silence from that specific rumor mill has to do with SL's current position on the hype curve? Mercury Barnes: Is "jumping the community" a good approach? Topher Zwiers: perhaps Google backed off that project a bit? Movies1963 Beck: no AJ Brooks: its called - legal documents Movies1963 Beck: looking for an article AJ Brooks: you sign this - and you don't talk - or we sue you until you cry Mercury Barnes: Google Vs. SL is nothing in terms of money, is there some marketing or legal reason for the absence of information (which has occurred). Jayne Urqhart: http://searchengineland.com/080307-092217.php Jayne Urqhart: Google kicked off military bases Movies1963 Beck: please look at that artticle Movies1963 Beck: thank you Jayne Jayne Urqhart: yw Mercury Barnes: k Movies1963 Beck: that shows Google is out on the street getting the textures they'll need to put on buildings already built Jayne Urqhart: oh, and whoever asked whether Google is interested in education - yes, they are very interested AJ Brooks: well - duh! AJ Brooks: they've been doing that for a while - for their streetview AJ Brooks: which is fully in place in many places like NYC Jayne Urqhart: Google Education Summit 2007 AJ Brooks: but thats for map sna streetview Mercury Barnes: Copyright, I claim copytright on my steel-blue house (with the dead tree near the stream :). AJ Brooks: all of what you are saying doesn't make sense for an SL like virtual world Jayne Urqhart: Google partnering with Global SchoolNet AJ Brooks: where the user cn and does create what they want AJ Brooks: I don't want to go into NYC and walk around - I'd get bored 2with that VERY quickly Movies1963 Beck: there will be 2 sides of the virtual presentation Mercury Barnes: That's why Google could fail Aj....nail on the head. Movies1963 Beck: the real mapping and then the actual communitties like SL AJ Brooks: Movies - you talk about a lot of these things, but how do you KNOW this - or even speculate it - what have you read or heard tha tleads to this - youv'e still not put up an support AJ Brooks: in academic tersm, this is all hypothesis - for which I'd fail a paper. :-) AJ Brooks: essays need some kind of support AJ Brooks: clearly there is no press you can refer to - but how is it you came to think what you think? Movies1963 Beck: I'd fail a student for taking a stab in the dark, I'd never fail a student for an educated hypothesis Birdie Newcomb: A hypotheses needs testing Mercury Barnes: It would be "cool" to fly around the earth seeing bridges and everything, but will that transfer into "wanting to live and work there?" -- interesting concept (and Google is "not" doing interiors). AJ Brooks: educated hypothsis need to have support Movies1963 Beck: it's all a hypoteses.... AJ Brooks: well - based on what? AJ Brooks: where is the sources work - pointers - indicators AJ Brooks: opinion is fine, but what are you basing that opinion on? Movies1963 Beck: based on all the articals, software, experiance and actions that they've taken MzTere Writer: a reference link just in to me: http://energycommerce.house.gov/membios/schedule.shtml Topher Zwiers: Actually... there may be pointers to it.. but if you go back to Google's mission - the only mission they've ever had - it doesn't fit.... AJ Brooks: well - so far all I"ve seen is one articel about them taking pictures on a base Topher Zwiers: To make everything searchable.... AJ Brooks: where els ie there AJ Brooks: I was at that today AJ Brooks: it was very good Movies1963 Beck: based on the fact that Google is out to win hearts and minds in the education world AJ Brooks: and not a word about google Topher Zwiers: if that's the mission. there's no value in a virtual world ala SL. AJ Brooks: not even someome FROM google there Mercury Barnes: Dual pictures will allow them to leverage stereoscopic meaning they can create the proverbial "Wild West City" in the movies," but will "residents" want to fill in the remainder? AJ Brooks: education is SO not profitable AJ Brooks: well - lots of companies want ot win over education, but this isn't too many compaines bread and butter - so why google? Movies1963 Beck: we're here filling in the remainder Mercury Barnes: Agreed Aj. MzTere Writer: i disagree aj, there i s much profit Movies1963 Beck: because Google has the deep pockets to win AJ Brooks: what?>?????? Topher Zwiers: I don't know that an LMS fits into the "make everything searchable" idea either - but it's closer than a VW. AJ Brooks: profit - in education??????? AJ Brooks: what education do YOU work in MzTere Writer: yes Topher Zwiers: there is A LOT of profit in education. Movies1963 Beck: sure Topher Zwiers: ask Blackboard. MzTere Writer: on a college level mainly AJ Brooks: if ther is a lot of profit in education, why are schools having budgest cut, and why do people in our industry make a FRACTION of what they make in the "reael " world Topher Zwiers: MzTere - not true - even at K-12 level, there's much profit to be gained... Movies1963 Beck: look at the companies that re-write your schools books every year so the students needto buy new each school year Mercury Barnes: You'd be assuming Mz, and "shareholders," won't allow that -- winning hearts and minds and doing good only works if there's a profit (for shareholders). Topher Zwiers: that's the OTHER side of coin.. AJ Brooks: wel - I don't know where you work, but there is NOT profit in the education market I've seen MzTere Writer: exactly movies AJ Brooks: thats not educatin - thats publishing MzTere Writer: exactly AJ Brooks: BIG difference Topher Zwiers: There's limited REVENUE in education - for the bulk of it - but there's not limited profit for vendors... AJ Brooks: they don't do just educational books Movies1963 Beck: that's your school selling out to the book publishers AJ Brooks: thats most schools doing that Movies1963 Beck: to make money from that MzTere Writer: education i s abusnes sno matter how you slice it, but unfortunatly, the main role models are denied Mercury Barnes: Ed is a huge "cost" to society, but it's fragmented, with no area getting a lots (it's half of my property tax bill). Topher Zwiers: AJ - but that's still "profit" in education.... AJ Brooks: i never said it wasn't a business - just that it is not a profit driving one - and its is not AJ Brooks: I think any president of Provost would bristle at the idea that Education is profitable Topher Zwiers: from our side of it - as educators - education is not a profit driven one... MzTere Writer: students are a marketed target Movies1963 Beck: look at NCLB that put Billions of Dollars in the pockets of Bush Cronnies Topher Zwiers: ask someone in AV/projection systems - sales - if it's profit driven... AJ Brooks: oh please! Topher Zwiers: very different answer... AJ Brooks: NCLB - y ou're going to bring up NCLB????? Mercury Barnes: Not true, this is why Education has a "quality issue" -- profit does affect it. AJ Brooks: lack of profit affects it AJ Brooks: anyway - what a great conversation AJ Brooks: our time is up for this week AJ Brooks: we meet here each week AJ Brooks: and you are all welcome to saty Mercury Barnes: Yes, our local school board has even recognized that the yearly "dismissal of teachers," tends to cause "stress." Topher Zwiers: There's limited profit coming in - but there's incredible expenses going out... For a company like Blackboard, those expenses represent profit. AJ Brooks: but I like to keep to our alloted time AJ Brooks: so those of you who need to leave, please feel free to without regret AJ Brooks: those who want to stay and chat, please do AJ Brooks: I will be here, but AFK Robin Mochi: Is anyone here involved with Croquet? I would be interested in talking with you if you are. AJ Brooks: so I can capture the chat AJ Brooks: I know someone here at MSU who is Topher Zwiers: So are there general takeaway points that could be restated? Topher Zwiers: (particularly since I missed the first 20 minutes?) AJ Brooks: if you email me Robin - sorry.afk@gmail.com Robin Mochi: thanks AJ Brooks: I'll pass it along to him and you two can chat AJ Brooks: (lol - google mail) Topher Zwiers: ha.. AJ - didn't realize you were sorry.afk!! ;-) Robin Mochi: great Mercury Barnes suggests that if he gets shot, the "core" will come out. -- one learns the tools of the venue, and how best to use them for their goals (and I've never had to use the bloody thing, griefers hear the sound, realize "the sheriff is around," and flee. :). Movies1963 Beck: see AJ Google won your heart and mind:) AJ Brooks: :-) Zotarah Shepherd: Not easy to find resourses for my Lit Review about SL. AJ Brooks punches Movies in the arm Movies1963 Beck: lol Movies1963 Beck: lol AJ Brooks: Lit Review - look up Literature Alive! AJ Brooks: you'll find plenty of stuff there Zotarah Shepherd: I know Desi AJ Brooks: Desi Stockton is doing some amacing work Zotarah Shepherd: I have been in her classes mTea Box: Gotta run. This was interesting. Bye. Zotarah Shepherd: SL NMC classes Kichirou Watanabe: I'm outta here, interesting conversation, bye Mercury Barnes: Desidiera is good.. Zotarah Shepherd: Yes she is Robin Mochi: thanks, this was very interesting. be Robin Mochi: I mean bye Movies1963 Beck: thank you all I enjoyed the talk Zotarah Shepherd: Interesting discussion AJ but I think these should be a bit longer. Topher Zwiers: AJ - do you have URL's for any references to a Google Virtual World project? AJ Brooks: i wish they could AJ Brooks: i do not Mercury Barnes: No, it gives me an excuse to bug out of work a bit early. :) AJ Brooks: and folks are welcome to saty and continue the chat Mercury Barnes: Bye. :) AJ Brooks: Bye Mercury AJ Brooks: oh - and when we're don - feel free to beta test our new toud vehincel AJ Brooks: tour vehicle Zotarah Shepherd: Where is that? Cli Doobie: Hi Everybodyy Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Cli Sativa Villa: HELLO CLI AJ Brooks: in between the message board and that stone archway Cli Doobie: HALOOOOO! MzTere Writer: i am seeking to being up another topic if i may Sativa Villa: HALOOOOOOOOOOO Cli Doobie: what is the topic? Sativa Villa: OK CAN I PROPOSE A SUBJECT OF CONVERSATION? MzTere Writer: wel, its more like a help request AJ Brooks: well - for next meeting, perhaps - todays meeting has more or less come to a close Zotarah Shepherd: What is it? AJ Brooks: i mean - you can bring anything up MzTere Writer: I am about to launch a poject that will bring may artists into SL MzTere Writer: at once AJ Brooks: but it might be btetter with a bigger group Cli Doobie: what? MzTere Writer: and i am trying to find the proper way to guide them once they are here MzTere Writer: i have been in touch with NCI Zotarah Shepherd: Oh my AJ Brooks: hmmm - language check Cli Doobie: your not even listening! :-) Zotarah Shepherd: What did you want to say Cli? MzTere Writer: Aj are you familiar with NCI here inSL Cli Doobie: what? nothing at all! MzTere Writer: abnd teir classes AJ Brooks: i am not MzTere Writer: i will send you landmark MzTere Writer: very informative MzTere Writer gave you NCI Beach - New Citizens Incorpo, Fishermans Cove (62, 185, 24). Zotarah Shepherd: This is a discussion group about educational topics AJ Brooks: ty Mz MzTere Writer: yes MzTere Writer: you definetly should check out their class board of sessions AJ Brooks: i'll look it over Zotarah Shepherd: But it just officially ended. These discussions are every week at 2:30 SLT. MzTere Writer: if anyone has suggestions in helpful ways to bring a lot of newbies into SL at one time please inform MzTere Writer: i have the audience MzTere Writer: to bring in AJ Brooks: set up your own API, or work something out with someone who has AJ Brooks: such as NMC MzTere Writer: API? AJ Brooks: or contact LL directly AJ Brooks: they may be able to help Topher Zwiers: MzTere - I worked with three others this past week to bring in about 20 newbies... Zotarah Shepherd: What do the artists need to do in SL? AJ Brooks: Application Programming INterface MzTere Writer: OK THX MzTere Writer: WEL EVENTAULLY they will perform and I will promote them on my land AJ Brooks: its a web site that will interact with a database Topher Zwiers: We used an "training facility" - had areas to learn navigation & camera controls, an area for individual/group communication, another for interacting with objects and one for avatar customization and inventory control. MzTere Writer: excellent Cli Doobie: what? AJ Brooks: NMC has their orientation island? Topher Zwiers: I'm working on building a training facility with different areas - rezzed via a holo rezzer.. AJ Brooks: lol - didn't mean to tput he ? AJ Brooks: great idea! MzTere Writer: thanks topher Topher Zwiers: For educators, NMC Orientation Island - and NMC's create account script is the way to go.... AJ Brooks: agreed AJ Brooks: it made our job so much easier Topher Zwiers: start there... crazy thing is - I don't believe they have any information/tutorials about teleporting and I didn't find - will have to check again - a collection of landmarks - which means there's no way to get off the island? If you're a noob. Zotarah Shepherd: There are many places where newbies can learn about SL basics. AJ Brooks: there is on NMC, and I believe they do have ea secoint for teleporting MzTere Writer: I just sent AJ a LM to NCI Zotarah Shepherd: I think NMC charges. MzTere Writer: with classes by teachers they seemed like a good training area too did I do that? Topher Zwiers: no.. our griefer/annoyance did... Zotarah Shepherd: NMC Mashup conference is going on now. This is not a combat sim. Interesting discussions AJ. Good that the land setting here are well set. AJ Brooks: well - I have to get back to grading my papers Topher Zwiers: Enjoyed the conversation! Appreciated everyone's time! AJ Brooks: thanks all for a productive discussion Topher Zwiers: look forward to the transcript.... MzTere Writer: nice meeting you Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks for the discussion AJ Movies1963 Beck: thank you AJ it was interesting AJ Brooks: take care all Movies1963 Beck: bye bye Jayne Urqhart: cheers Zotarah Shepherd: See you next week. You have more patience than I do AJ *grins* AJ Brooks: excellent - see you then, [sigh] Zotarah Shepherd: Bye Movies