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SL Education Roundtable - Montclair State CHSS Island Tuesday, March 25th, 2008 "Does Appearance Really Matter for Educators in SL?"

AJ Brooks: hi everyone, sorry I'm late. Please, join us at the table - there is room enough for all. Ok - so - welcome everyone. We have some new faces, so why don't we all introduce ourselves. No need to wait for anyone, just go ahead and type away - we can all follow it in history Kavon Zenovka: Kae from Front Range Community College - Colorado Marcus Clarke - not ad Edu professional, just instered in SL education possiblities AJ Brooks: I'm AJ Kelton in RL, I"m the Director of Technology Services for the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University in NJ. I'm also the program administrator who is responsible for this island LaLuz Graves: I'm an Instructional Designer at Pima College in beautiful Tucson, AZ Turterelle Cuttita: Hello, I'm from Switzerland , I study languages in SL Ashbrook Llewellyn: I work for the U.S. National Archives in Missouri Pennelope Oceanlane: Hi, I'm from Baltimore, MD and work in Educational Publishing Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA student in Education at Sonoma State. I teach in SL and the teen grid now and my MA thesis project will be in SL on life-skills and self-esteem Existentialisms Janitor is starting a PhD in Info. Sciences in the Fall Desideria Stockton: I am Beth Ritter-Guth, I teach English FT at Lehigh Carbon CC in PA, and am the CEO of Literature Alive! in SL Yushua Sleestak: I am BA student in philosophy Ishara Rosas: Hi, I'm a student. I'm just here to listen if you guys don't mind. :) AJ Brooks: don't mind at all AJ Brooks: OK - now - a little experiment, from my firned Stargazer. Please tell us how you found out about this meeting today. If it was a group, let us know what group and if it was an IM or Notice, if it was from a list, which list, and if it was from events, please let us know that Kavon Zenovka: SLED Desideria Stockton: Group Existentialisms Janitor: SLED calendar Marcus Clarke: events Yushua Sleestak: searching events Ashbrook Llewellyn: group - ISTE, I think LaLuz Graves: Searching Events under Education. Millicent Jaerls: events search Turterelle Cuttita: search / events / discussions Zotarah Shepherd: You told us about these meetings at a Bridging meeting. Pennelope Oceanlane: SL Educators Mailing List AJ Brooks: Wonderful, so a number of you found out about this throu events, so I guess we'll be advertising through events from now on Stargazer Blazer: Yayy! I had a feeling ;) AJ Brooks: thanks to Stargazer for the prodding on that Desideria Stockton claps for Star Stargazer Blazer giggles. Stargazer Blazer: Thanks, Desi :) Ztarah Shepherd: Well it is also good to get notices in the Edu Groups AJ. AJ Brooks: Oh - I"ll be doing the email, groups, and Events AJ Brooks: ok - so - on to our topic for today. Do appearance really matter for educators in SL? Who wants to dive in on this one? Desideria Stockton: When you say appearances, you mean avatars, right? AJ Brooks: Yes. You want to start, Desi, - you've done some research on this Desideria Stockton: Ok :-) Being virtual Barbie has been very eye opening. [14:40] Desideria Stockton: selecting Barbie as a universal symbol of femininity. I created this avatar to do gender discourse research. And, I could have changed it when I was done with the exploration, but didn't. And, if you have met me, you know I neither look nor act like barbie irl. I push the limites. But, I only wear clothing that can be found for a RL Barbie to question whether we send a mixed message to girls about dress, demeanor, and appearnace. Sir Ken Richardson speaks well of educators in that they act by using their bodies to transport their heads tomeetings. Desideria Stockton: I think he is dead spot on Zotarah Shepherd remembers Desi's NMC presentation about this. Yushua Sleestak: I think it depends on the type of students. AJ Brooks: So - lets do a little survey, real quick, by saying yes or no, how many of you think appearnace matters for educators in SL? Desideria Stockton: no Zotarah Shepherd: Yes AJ Brooks: Yes Brejon Larkham: y? LaLuz Graves: yes Yushua Sleestak: no Donna Paike: yes Turterelle Cuttita: y Millicent Jaerls: yes Kavon Zenovka: yes Existentialisms Janitor: yes? Stargazer Blazer: maybe :P Morten Amat: yes Marcus Clarke: initially yes Pennelope Oceanlane: no Desideria Stockton is soooo outnumbered Ashbrook Llewellyn: depends on the audience AJ Brooks: 11-3-1. Anyone else? Peacefrog Ewinaga: depends Yushua Sleestak: I got your back Desideria :-) Desideria Stockton: I think we are judged by the content of our character AJ Brooks: 11-3-2. Well - character is not immediately visable to avatars even in SL. But thats another subject, hold on that a momnent Stargazer Blazer: I have found that to be true too, Desi AJ Brooks: another survey, before we get into the topic LaLuz Graves: but if I showed up today dressed as a naked slave girl, my appearance would seem to comment on my character (no, I am never a naked slave girl. lol) Desideria Stockton: the work we do here should be what peopel see as representative of us, not our pixels AJ Brooks: ok - hang on everyone, one sec Desideria Stockton: lol AJ Brooks: hold on the typing for a sec Zotarah Shepherd: I think we SHOULD be judged by the content of our character, but how we look still counts. AJ Brooks: second question. Yes or no - how many of you even remotely look like your RL selves AJ Brooks: Yes LaLuz Graves: yes Desideria Stockton: LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Marcus Clarke: no Yushua Sleestak: no Donna Paike: a little Desideria Stockton: no Ashbrook Llewellyn: no Pennelope Oceanlane: no Morten Amat: no Millicent Jaerls: yes Kavon Zenovka: I think appearance matters - but when dressing an isntructor's avatar in SL, I found a business suit too conservative. That it may actually inhibit the students. Peacefrog Ewinaga: no Turterelle Cuttita: no Zotarah Shepherd: The idea is that our appearance should reflect our character Existentialisms Janitor: yes Yushua Sleestak: but to be fair, I dont look like my skin either. AJ Brooks: 5-8 so far Zotarah Shepherd: no AJ Brooks: anyone else? 5-9 Kavon Zenovka: our online character? AJ Brooks: avatar looks like real life self Desideria Stockton: I wouldnt want to, honeswtly AJ Brooks: lol. you're being hard on yourself. ok, so most of you say that appearnace matters and most of you don't look like yourself in RL Kavon Zenovka: I have an avatar that looks like one of my friends. Desideria Stockton: but that is a funtion of money and diet AJ Brooks: lol. Now Donna Paike: lol Desideria Stockton: i would sooooooo wear them, if I had the money to buy these gowns Donna Paike: me too and the figure Desideria Stockton: BUT, I would look like stuffed sausage AJ Brooks: Desi - talk more about perception of character, which is what you started to say Desideria Stockton: so I dont :-) Kavon Zenovka: and a place where gowns were accepted/ LaLuz Graves: Yes. if I had the money I'd have my AVies wardrobe and toys Desideria Stockton: I think our work defines us in here Ashbrook Llewellyn: Desi, now I know what to do with all those bridesmaid dresses :-) Desideria Stockton: like Intellagirl. I have ever met her, but have seen her avatar and RL pic Kavon Zenovka: When I go window shopiing, I now say i cant wear that but my avatar can. Desideria Stockton: but those didnt sell me on how good she is at SL, what sold me was her blog and her posts to SLed and her work in here AJ Brooks: ok - but do others see that about us when they first see us, do our students see that about us on the first night in SL Rachel Corleone: there was a discussion here the other day about problems with a G4 MacBook... are any of the participants online now? Desideria Stockton: most of them time people dont rez right for me. lol. I donno, i mean I dont know a lot of people here Ashbrook Llewellyn: Don't you think that it's more about identity than appearance? It's not so much that you look like Barbie, or a 10-foot tall dragon, but that students and colleagues can come to recognize us AJ Brooks: does it mater what our students think of us? Desideria Stockton: but I am not looking at their avatars, i am reading their text AJ Brooks: i'm talking first impressions here Stargazer Blazer: It is just like RL, your appearacne gets you in the door. Kavon Zenovka: But is a student's first impression - you taching a class or you in SL? LaLuz Graves: Right, I spend more time reading their words than studying the design of the hair. Donna Paike: I think first impressions still matter here. Everyone is on a level playing field here, we all look relatively alike, no cellulite Marcus Clarke seconds that sentiment AJ Brooks: clearly the right thing to do is judege someone on their work Yushua Sleestak: would it be better if the SL staff were giant dragons instead of RL looking people? Well, maybe not better but different. What would we think of this whole operation if they dressed and looked abstractly? Millicent Jaerls: Other residents often make judgement of yr SL experience from yr choice of avatar skins/customisations, etc Desideria Stockton: i am going to ivite one of my students that just signed on he knows me IRL and in here Donna Paike: I don't have a double chin Shailey Garfield: sorry I am late AJ Brooks: grab a seat, plenty of room for all Desideria Stockton: Hi Nugget, have a seat Yushua Sleestak: PS, I dont know much about the SLed, can someone pass me a card or something? Desideria Stockton: this is Nugget - he is in English 104 with me AJ Brooks: hi there, welcome Desideria Stockton: sure, SLed is the SL educators mailing list Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Nugget AJ Brooks: and click on EDUCATION Desideria Stockton: http://secondlife.com/education AJ Brooks: the sled list is talked about there go to secondlife.com Morten Amat: sorry ... have to leave AJ Brooks: thx desi Desideria Stockton: Nugget, right click an open seat and then press sit Yushua Sleestak: thank you, and sorry for the off topic question Morten Amat: thanks for this interesting conversation AJ Brooks: not off topic. :-) Desideria Stockton: Nugget, we are talking about avatar appearance AJ Brooks: come back next week, Morten AJ Brooks: we meet each week at this time Desideria Stockton: and whether it matters AJ Brooks: so I have a story Desideria Stockton: you know me IRL and here AJ Brooks: it about why I think appearnce matters and it doesn't Desideria Stockton: ooooh, goodie :-) Morten Amat: yes ... i'm looking forward to came again, bye AJ Brooks: I had a student last semester who was a zebra the whole semester, a zebra. I also had one who was either Mario, from Mario Brothers, or the KoolAid mAn Desideria Stockton: lol AJ Brooks: every class Yushua Sleestak: nice AJ Brooks: shoudl that matter to me? LaLuz Graves: I love that we have those options. Yushua Sleestak: no! AJ Brooks: now, before you answer Desideria Stockton: do you think it is different for students and professors, though? AJ Brooks: on the other side of the coin LaLuz Graves: Today I'm feeling Mario. AJ Brooks: what do you think THEY thought of ME? Ashbrook Llewellyn: In a way, I think the *very* different avatars help us get past appearances AJ Brooks: would I have had the same respect from them if I was a dragon LaLuz Graves: First meeting, might be different. Really depends on the extreme to which one might go Ashbrook Llewellyn: you get a chuckle from talking to Mario, then you focus on the person AJ Brooks: or a 2' tall roley poley man Desideria Stockton: I think the students are too busy trying to figure SL out to care about what we look like, hoestly AJ Brooks: or a 7' tall bearded woman Marcus Clarke: Dr Ruth! Desideria Stockton: Nugget, does it bug you that I am barbie? Shailey Garfield: No, I think the apperance does matter AJ Brooks: so - if thats the case, Desi, why stay as Barbie? Peacefrog Ewinaga: Depends on what ur teaching Nugget Questi: It doesn't bother me Desideria Stockton: lol Millicent Jaerls: Maybe a group of SL dragons might want to be taught by a Dragon Educator ... Desideria Stockton: well, that is a good question, AJ. i think - for me - it is brand identity, I am "Barbie with Brains" AJ Brooks nods LaLuz Graves: Some AVies are so huge, finstance, that they physically demand too much attention. A zebra with 5 attached zebras is not cute, it's distrating Desideria Stockton: and have always been in here Yushua Sleestak: interesting point AJ! hmmm... I want to say that perhaps as a teacher, there are certain expectations that students have, one of them being that you are a bit more down to earth about yourlife and the such. I dunno, but I still want to say it should not matter either way, rather it be the students or the profs. Desideria Stockton: packaged that way Kavon Zenovka: I think an instructor presenting a very conservative appearance could inhibit students at my college. AJ Brooks: i showed up last week to class in robes - head to toe - sultan robes Yushua Sleestak: I mean, does a rose by any other name smell just as sweet? ^___^ AJ Brooks: my students FREAKED out Marcus Clarke: rl or sl? Kavon Zenovka: really why? Desideria Stockton: I really dont think my students pay that close attention to what I wear AJ Brooks: because they alwasy see me like this Desideria Stockton: they are too busy doing other things AJ Brooks: now - I don't dress like this in RL - I never wear a suit to class Desideria Stockton: like finding nuggets or decorating hell Zotarah Shepherd: I appear the way I feel most comfortable. Shailey Garfield: I think it is important to keep the distance for the sakeof some discipline and code of conduct/probably seriousness to the delivery of learning AJ Brooks: jeans and a pull over Stargazer Blazer: Oh, so you have established a norm for yourself. AJ Brooks: i guess so Yushua Sleestak: excellent point Shailey Desideria Stockton: Nugget, do you care what I wear in real life class? AJ Brooks: since I "represent" MSU, in so many places, I thought it was necessary to buy a shape, and form, and skin, and nice suit Desideria Stockton: there is a dress code at DeSales, but not at LCCC AJ Brooks: albeit a somewhat chic one! LOL Ashbrook Llewellyn: That's a good point - maybe it's more for our peers than for our students Desideria Stockton: Ash, I think you are dead spot on Ashbrook Llewellyn: but that also affects our ability to get funding for projects, to get support, etc Desideria Stockton: when we are in conferneces Kavon Zenovka: ours reads something like "should not be a distraction to education" Shailey Garfield: I am aware of an educator in the UK who doesn't allow his students to have non-human avatars AJ Brooks: well - for me, since I am the most prominaant presnce from MSU right now, I think I need to refelct well on the University Desideria Stockton: NO WAY AJ Brooks: WHAT??????? LaLuz Graves: the distraction comment definitely applies inworld. AJ Brooks: why teach in SL then? Stargazer Blazer: Avatar representation is a form of self expression. Desideria Stockton: If my students want to be zebras Kavon Zenovka: I know - I just thought of it as AJ was bringing it up AJ Brooks: let them! Desideria Stockton: I would love that they thought about it long enough to choose Shailey Garfield: He feels that the more we replicate rhe real classroom setting the better students will feel - having the same mental model helps Kavon Zenovka: we haven't discussed the dress code at my college yet Desideria Stockton: Nuggets team decided to dress like Greasers AJ Brooks: blech lol – kewl so - good question. dress code - anyone else have that? LaLuz Graves: no Ashbrook Llewellyn: I think having the same mental model is often more important for adults, frankly Millicent Jaerls: If nudity is banned in some sims, surely this is an argument that appearance matters Desideria Stockton: at DeSales there is a dress code Yushua Sleestak: what would you, as teachers and/or students, think if someone logged in and kept the default avatar the whole time? Would you think of them as uncreative or unexpressive? Just curious... AJ Brooks: codes of conduct, so to speak? Desideria Stockton: for faculty Kavon Zenovka: I hope I never have to have this discussion with adminstrators Desideria Stockton: but at LCCC, we are union, and we have no code and I challenge it in RL :-) Stargazer Blazer: Yushua, I would. Desideria Stockton: not with revealing stuff AJ Brooks: what would I think of someone who kept the default avatar - honestly Donna Paike: I would think that they were not creative and would suggest take them on a shopping trip AJ Brooks: I would think they didn't care enough to do something different Desideria Stockton: now THAT is an excellent point, AJ LaLuz Graves: a noob Avie would make me ponder the thought process behind the choice. Yes. Didn't care or was too restricted in their thinking Kavon Zenovka: My Co-instructor always wore the same thing. Students started bringning him free clthes. AJ BRooks: now Desideria Stockton: I would say there is more judgment on newbie avies than "revelaing"ones Zotarah Shepherd: I am cofacilitating a panel on ISTE this afternoon adn I would not feel right going up there as something different. However I think that is more because I have established an identity looking this way. If I had started out looking different I would stay that way. And I know some who change AVs almost every day. AJ Brooks: if they made a CONSCIOUS decision to do that Ashbrook Llewellyn: but we're assuming that newbie is bad AJ Brooks: thats different Donna Paike: I agree LaLuz Graves: Agreed Ashbrook Llewellyn: and prim hair is good Desideria Stockton: And Zototrah, you got GREAT style Ashbrook Llewellyn: which is pretty much the judgmental attitude we get in rl Stargazer Blazer: Yes, part of being here is expressing who you are in your outward appearance. We truly can be judged by our actions here, and show who we think we are, or would like to be.

Desideria Stockton: I would really wonder if you showed up looking anything but elegant AJ Brooks: judgement - there we go - it is your brand Yushua Sleestak: You guys are interesting. You dont care about a Zebra avatar, but in a way, you judge if their avatar is unchanged. AJ Brooks: do we do in SL what we abhor in RL Kavon Zenovka: In snow crash didn't one of the characters use her nebie avatar to make a statement. Desideria Stockton: It is interesting, Yushua Marcus Clarke: gotta run - thanks folks Desideria Stockton: but Vivkie Davis comes in here AJ Brooks: well - the zebra person made an effort to show creativity Donna Paike: I agee with Star and also think that what we choose to wear also reflects who we are Desideria Stockton: as does Philip Linden, and I dont judge them and she uses a default, so maybe it isn't always true if you know the person in advance AJ Brooks: well - Philip is making a statement Ashbrook Llewellyn: it does teach you something about others and their assumptions Yushua Sleestak: What if the creativity is in their speech, and not their image, like I think it ought to be looked for. Desideria Stockton: (I dont make enough Linden?) AJ Brooks: lol Desideria Stockton: I agree, Yushua Stargazer Blazer: This is a visual environment. I form an image in my head when I meet a person through IMs. Then when they rez, it is always a nice surprise. :) AJ Brooks: I would certainly ask a student why they kept the default form. to be honest the number one questions I get from students when they first come in is how to change their appearnace LaLuz Graves: Creativity in their text/speech can easilly override the appearance. Desideria Stockton: I actually pay a former student to help my students get dressed Stargazer Blazer: We are able to develop a visual literacy here. Yushua Sleestak: Ah! so then, perhaps they left it for you and everyone else to ask that question. I mean,. what better way to get to the meat of the matter, no? Desideria Stockton: (and I lend her out, btw) Covergirl1922 Ballyhoo: what is this Kavon Zenovka: I get the same thing from students - we have to pause and let them play around with it for a bit before we continue with the orientation. Zotarah Shepherd: Most of the Lindens I have seen in SL are quite creative in their AV appearances. Desideria Stockton: Nugget, do yuo look at appearances of the students in class? Covergirl1922 Ballyhoo: is this a class AJ Brooks: no, covergirl, its a meeting Desideria Stockton: come have a seat covergirl Ashbrook Llewellyn: Hi, Cover. This is a discussion of avatar appearance and education in SL AJ Brooks: todays topic is on appearnce in sSL for educators Nugget Questi: I notice the more "unusual" ones Desideria Stockton: we are talking about appearance and education AJ Brooks: BIRDIE!! Desideria Stockton: Now, our main builder, Eloise, wears a collar, does that bother you, Nugget? AJ Brooks: and nipple rings Desideria Stockton: BIRDIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yes, and nipple rings, but she covers them upo for class Yushua Sleestak: What is it about appearence that grabs us so, in RL and SL. Are we really that shallow of a creature? Some evolunatary thing? I dunno, but it sure is weird. People seem to be set up to survive in reality, not understand it. Birdie Newcomb: Hi folks. multitasking AJ Brooks: its not just us - its all living creatures Yushua Sleestak: Bonjour! Ca va bien? Desideria Stockton has missed Birdie :-) it is good to see you AJ Brooks: appearnce matters Yushua Sleestak: :-) Desideria Stockton: it matters, but to what degree? Covergirl1922 Ballyhoo: can I butt in and ask what shcool is this Desideria Stockton: I dont grade my students on appearance Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Birdie. Good to see you. Yushua Sleestak: point taken AJ, but then extend my wonder to all of life and not just humans AJ Brooks: look to your left, Covergirl Desideria Stockton: they are graded on their writing and communication skills AJ Brooks: lol - Yushua Birdie Newcomb: Hi Zo Yushua Sleestak: :-D Desideria Stockton: and I dont think they grade me on my appearance Brielle Coronet is Online Desideria Stockton: but if I am fair and equitable and teach them something Nugget Questi: Not really. I don't think too much about fashion in real life. Considering this, I think it matters even less in SL. I also would say that fashion is more of a non-conformity statement than a conformity statement here. AJ Brooks: but I do think they JUDEG you on yoru appearnce Covergirl1922 Ballyhoo: ohh sorry Stargazer Blazer: Why don't educators exploit the ability to change shape? Yushua Sleestak: life seems to want to live first, and then understand second. Who would of thunk it. :) Donna Paike: I agree, I think our first "take" on someone is how they look, after that we listen to them to find out who they are AJ Brooks: does considering appearnce make us shallow? Donna Paike: in some ways sl levels that playing field Desideria Stockton: what if your colelge or uni FORCED you to change Stargazer Blazer: Many keep one shape, one outfit, why not change into a different costume or persona for every class and make it topic related? would you? Donna Paike: no way Yushua Sleestak: Define Judge, as I think we may be using two difference versons of it. I am using it in the sense of moving one's action and opinions in a given way based on the appearence Peacefrog Ewinaga: it's shallow if that's all that is considered Turterelle Cuttita: I m sorry I have to leave, greetings from Switzerland Desideria Stockton: take care :-) AJ Brooks: bye Turterelle Desideria Stockton: it was great to meet you AJ Brooks: thanks for coming Yushua Sleestak: Avoir :) Desideria Stockton: see you next week! AJ Brooks: for other who may need to leave, we meet here each Tuesday from 2:30pm SLT. next weeks topic is - but - enough of that - back to this Desideria Stockton must go in 5 minutes Kavon Zenovka: cool AJ Brooks: great conversation Pennelope Oceanlane: I like the idea of different costumes that are topic related. AJ Brooks: What is Google up to and how will it impact education Desideria Stockton: yes - I do, too Shailey Garfield: Yes, I agree Penelope Desideria Stockton: I love going to role play sims like Caledon, not so much Gor Donna Paike: there are great role playing places in sl Desideria Stockton: but, I like to see Calendon, when they have a ball - it is amazing Stargazer Blazer: We can do so much here. it's barely be used for that purpose. Yushua Sleestak: I use to do the Gor. Back in '06. It was a bit different then Desideria Stockton: and really cool Shailey Garfield: I think the more we can make it like RL, the more comfortable students will be Desideria Stockton: were you a master or slave? Ashbrook Llewellyn: It reminds me of the way people new to SL expect online campuses to have the same buildings their RL ones do. At first, that seems like the way to go because it's familiar. Over time, though, those same people might learn to like wildly different spaces for learning (or wildly different avatars) Desideria Stockton: Ash, you are soo right about that Yushua Sleestak: I was neither, I was a wandering philosopher/begger character Stargazer Blazer: I think the more we can make it relevant the more comfortable everyone will be. AJ Brooks: good comment, Ashbrook Desideria Stockton: i think people come in thinking "OMG! I am using this really odd techno..i had better tow the line" Shailey Garfield: yes, I agree Ashbrook - but getting over the initial hump is important AJ Brooks: the only place on tis island that looks ANYTHIGN like the real MSU is this area Desideria Stockton: and then they realize that they can explore Nugget Questi: In real life, there is typically one or two styles of clothing that are considered "in;" styles which I couldn't care less about. And I feel the traditions of wearing formal attire to specific events, stylish clothes to others, is nothing more than a paradigm. AJ Brooks: but it also happens to be the telehub Desideria Stockton: and then they change things up a bit AJ Brooks: so what does THAT say Desideria Stockton: I wear whatever is clean Yushua Sleestak: wow, interesting AJ Desideria Stockton: I truly am the "scattered brain" professor AJ Brooks: and that was a conscious choice on my part Stargazer Blazer giggles at Desi's comment. Desideria Stockton: (Nugget is laughing - he can tell you). I wore my RL dress backwards today Yushua Sleestak: "weclome to a RL mapping of MSU...... fooooooooool you" :)( Nugget Questi: In Second Life, however, there is no set standard for dress, be it a dress code or simply what's "in." You also don't have to worry about the "uncomfortable" factor Desideria Stockton: had to turn it around in the elevator, that is true, Nugget AJ Brooks chuckles at Desi Zotarah Shepherd: Maybe it is important to ask if appearance add to the ability to suspend disbelief with our students so they will be more invested in SL as real communication. Desideria Stockton: if your team didnt have a dress code, would you change your appearance, nugget? AJ Brooks: suspenstion of disbelief. I talked about that some in a paer I wrote on SL and education AJ Brooks: important concept Desideria Stockton: Now, Kavon has also met me, in Denver, where she can attest to my non-barbie-ness Yushua Sleestak: willing suspenstion of disbelief is the first step to both madness and civility Desideria Stockton: did it make you value the work there more or less? AJ Brooks: Here's an intersting thought Kavon Zenovka: yes and I don't look like this either Desideria Stockton: LOL. I would love to have seen you with blue hair AJ Brooks: I don't think value of work and appearenace is tied - so what is it about appearnce? Kavon Zenovka: But it does kind of fit my personality Ashbrook Llewellyn: I think it's more important for us to find a comfortable appearance for ourselves - whether that's a 1920s flapper or a giant lizard or Barbie Kavon Zenovka: I wore Doc Martens combat boots every day Ashbrook Llewellyn: If we're comfortable with whatever appearance, that will show Desideria Stockton: appearance, in here, seems to be an indication of time spent on detail Yushua Sleestak: appearence=value of time. Good appearence = worth the valuble time that is my life. AJ Brooks: here liz-ard liz-ard liz-ard Nugget Questi: I don't think how I look, in real life or in second life really matters. I probably wouldn't have picked the greaser look, since I don't really look like this. But for our American project, I think it fits. Desideria Stockton: that is a really good point, Nugget. I could NEVER see you dressing like this in real life, it isnt your style but it DOES fit your team style AJ Brooks: right click and select sit Desideria Stockton: they run a team called "Manville". all males AJ Brooks: YEAH!!!! Desideria Stockton: for the American Project Donna Paike: I disagree, I think appearance in rl matters more than it does here. We often judge people on their appearance, fat, thin, bald, cross-eyed AJ Brooks: Testesterone, baby! Desideria Stockton: I agree with Donna. In RL people care much more people are denied tenure bc of how they dress Ashbrook Llewellyn: There is bias here, too, though AJ Brooks: oh yes there is Desideria Stockton: in here, I don't think the SLed community is so shallow AJ Brooks: just like in RL Ashbrook Llewellyn: If I wear this hair and these glasses in SL, very few people tend to talk to me, compared to the hair I was wearing when I came in Desideria Stockton: do you think there is a bias, AJ? Shailey Garfield: I would care the same in SL - especially if its an educational setting Ashbrook Llewellyn: I know that's odd, but it's proven true AJ Brooks: i do - to some extent Ashbrook Llewellyn: I should've kept statistics AJ Brooks: i think there are expectations Ashbrook Llewellyn: And this looks much more like my rl hair and glasses :-) Desideria Stockton: I would say the bias is against the newbie avatar, not so much a "polished" one dressed in silks or nude Donna Paike: I agree with Desideria AJ Brooks: well - I agree about the newbie part Donna Paike: that's the first thing that I try to help people with Desideria Stockton: but, I think that in here, there are people that dress a certain way and people "accept" it AJ Brooks: but I think the peopel who dress very VERY provocatively are not taken as seriously, even if they are exceptional at what they do Zotarah Shepherd: I think credibility is an issue. We can be anything if it looks intentional and expresses a part of ourselves. Kavon Zenovka: Yes - I'm bad I'm always fixing faculty avatars - new shoes, better hair that i have, etc. Desideria Stockton: Eloise Pasteur, CDB Barkely, Intellagirl Peacefrog Ewinaga: The amount of Lindens spent on appearance products suggests that the consensus cares about appearance Desideria Stockton: those three have a certain "look" and people have come to know it and trust it AJ Brooks: Well - Sarah LOOKS like herself Desideria Stockton: true, she does AJ Brooks: CDB is a dog, so - lol Ashbrook Llewellyn: so there's a "brand" quality to it Birdie Newcomb: On In Kenzo Desideria Stockton: I think there is a brand quality Zotarah Shepherd: Yes pink hair streak and all. Donna Paike: yes LaLuz Graves: Default As ar possibly a misunderstood breed of free-thinkers? Some may be intentional non-identities so that they are free to be every identity through words/actions AJ Brooks: I can say - there are some peopel who would NOT have Elo work for them, even though she is so good at what she does Desideria Stockton: yes, that is true AJ AJ Brooks: it’s hard to convince the president or provost or BoT about some things LaLuz Graves: CDb Barkley may not look like his RL self, but he looks like his RL personality AJ Brooks: lol Desideria Stockton: I think there are people who dont hire her because of her dress code but, she refuses to change it, so I thik the better of her for that she does not suvccumb to the pressures here AJ Brooks: he's a dog? ALl men are dawgs! Kavon Zenovka: But the people who won't hire her, are they really SL residents? Donna Paike giggles Yushua Sleestak: therefor Socrates is a dog :) AJ Brooks: she deserve kudos for doing it her own way Yushua Sleestak: so, philosophy joke slipped out of me... LaLuz Graves: NOT what I meant, AJ. He's great funm dedicated, loyal. a good buddy. Desideria Stockton: lol Yushua Sleestak: *sorry AJ Brooks: :-) well, I'm told all men really ARE dwags, though Stargazer Blazer: I think that is a shame. well, that, too. AJ Brooks: dawgs, even LaLuz Graves: Viva la differance, then, AJ Zotarah Shepherd: Is there not a sense of appropriateness for the occassion? AJ Brooks: viva!!!! Desideria Stockton: well, that may be, but, really, I think that it is not as a big a deal Stargazer Blazer: Isn't that a prejudice, AJ? Desideria Stockton: not with students AJ Brooks: oh - of course - I'm only half serious Desideria Stockton: But, maybe it is because I explain the avatar to them AJ Brooks: i don't think I"m a dawg. woof Desideria Stockton: and the educators here know I research gender discourse and virtual ethics AJ Brooks: opps Kavon Zenovka: Desi - do you feel you have to explain? AJ Brooks: :-) Desideria Stockton: so they accept Barbie and Beth. not really, kavon - not to students, but to professionals, yes Stargazer Blazer: I was referring to the point about there being people who wouldn't hire Eloise based on her dress? Desideria Stockton: Eloise is an excellent scripter Kavon Zenovka: Do you think your Barbie avatar is normal for SL? Birdie Newcomb: Teens on the Teen Gred seem to enjoy diversity Desideria Stockton: the is the best in the business, in my opinion AJ Brooks: exceptional Birdie Newcomb: Even on the same day or hour Desideria Stockton: but, some people think their "purse holders" will be offended Kavon Zenovka: Desi- I didn't know the background and I just thought you had a normal "attractive" female avatar with great hair. Stargazer Blazer: And so there are people who won't hire her because of her dress? Desideria Stockton: LOL! LaLuz Graves: I'm not sure the administration would see the dress of the builder in the same way as the dress of a professor AJ Brooks: or lack thereof Desideria Stockton: why thank you, Kavon :-) AJ Brooks: :-) Desideria Stockton: I agree LaLuz Stargazer Blazer: So, that tells you, it does matter. Desideria Stockton: when Elo started volunteering for literature alive, her Mistress emailed me Desideria Stockton: and asked permission to allow Eloise to wear her outfits LaLuz Graves: And the beauty of it is that it is OK for her to dress her way and still function as an awesome person and builder Desideria Stockton: I was sooooo happy to have her as a volunteer Stargazer Blazer: It does matter how you dress if you may or may not have work because of it. Desideria Stockton: AND I wanted to be open minded AJ Brooks: the shock wears off quickly Desideria Stockton: so, there are times when I am totally totally blown away by what she is wearing AJ Brooks: I can tell you first hand LaLuz Graves: True. Desideria Stockton: but, then I just keep it in perpective AJ Brooks: since Desi and Elo built two of our attractions here Desideria Stockton: and she respects my students AJ Brooks: and I met Desi first LaLuz Graves: and we are living in a game, no? AJ Brooks: Elo came with the package Desideria Stockton: and has never come to class dressed in her yoke or chains AJ Brooks: game? no Desideria Stockton: lol AJ Brooks: not at all. SL is definitely NOT a game Ishara Rosas: Thank you guys for letting me listen do your discussion. Wish I could stay for the whole thing but I have to go. :) AJ Brooks: Games have rules and goals Desideria Stockton: yeah, aj, you can't meet two differently dressed people in all of SL AJ Brooks: lol - it was a shock, Desi, as you well remember Desideria Stockton: and, Schnecksville is, as you can imagine by its name, rather conservative AJ Brooks: but, i got over it Desideria Stockton: but, I learned to cope with it AJ Brooks: before more folks start to leave, and as we get to the end of our hour Desideria Stockton: and, really, these are just pixels, right? AJ Brooks: I want to thank everyone for coming today. I"ll be hanging out, but if you ahve to leave, please feel free to do so anytime LaLuz Graves: And your reaction, AJ is exactly why I chose the word "game" as opposed to my typical "virtual world". Feeling the room. AJ Brooks: we meet here each Tuesday t 2:30pm Second Life time, if you want to stay, feel free _ i'll be here for a bit LaLuz Graves: Thank you fotr deciding to put it out through Events. This was a great find. Yushua Sleestak: this was a very nice conversation! I cant wait for next weeks! Where do I sign up for the mailing list at? =-) Toady Nakamura: super find Desideria Stockton: This was great, AJ. ty Kavon Zenovka: Bye - thanks for the conversation! AJ Brooks: YOu can join EDUCAUSE Virtual Worlds if you'd like Desideria Stockton: i must feed the RL troops Yushua Sleestak: I think I now want to put some time into making my own avatar! AJ Brooks: I send stuff there Desideria Stockton: take care all Pennelope Oceanlane: I've enjoyed the conversation and look forward to next week. Thanks Donna Paike: you as well Toady Nakamura: making avi's is pretty easy Yushua Sleestak: I know not the first step :( Toady Nakamura: edit appearance > new skin Zotarah Shepherd: We are like artists here with everything we do and our canvas is our avatar as well as the virtual environments we build. AJ Brooks: i'll also be putting things in eventsf rom now on (thank you very much stargazer) Stargazer Blazer: Thanks, AJ, great discussion today. :) AJ Brooks: yes - today was awesome - and thanks to all of you for that Yushua Sleestak: :) Stargazer Blazer: You're welcome :) Birdie Newcomb: Few poeople, including myself, seem to spend muchy time on gestures and animations Shailey Garfield: Thanks. AJ Brooks: i've watned to experiment with that, but not made the time Zotarah Shepherd: I don't feel right when the walk animation does not work and I have to use the default one. AJ Brooks: lol - i know, walk like a duck Stargazer Blazer: I don't mind it, hehe. Birdie Newcomb: I eweem to wobble, except when I have skates on Donna Paike: great group, thanks Stargazer for telling me about it AJ Brooks: ? Zotarah Shepherd: I also don't like the default stance with both hands on hips but I have not found a better one yet. Stargazer Blazer: You're welcome ;) Yushua Sleestak: I think I am going to go and work on my avatar some :) thanks all! Desy, I use to be a hooker in SL. Its how I got my money to buy this outfit. I know what you mean when you talk about the Barbie stuff. AJ Brooks: oh - I like that one, Desi had to take off, Yushua Yushua Sleestak: oh shoot. Oh well, C'est la vie AJ Brooks: e la gar Toady Nakamura: LA VIE Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks for the interesting discussion. AJ Brooks: well thanks for coming by, hope you'll come back next week Yushua Sleestak: until next week :) Zotarah Shepherd: I wish it was a bit earlier Toady Nakamura: I'm sorry i got here so late, i only saw it in Events after it started Bisbee Writer: Yes, I'm sorry I was late too. Sounds like an interesting conversation AJ Brooks: the topic changes each week Bisbee Writer: I hope to be back next time! AJ Brooks: and I'm hoping to line up some guests, excellent Bisbee Writer: thanks