080408

SL Education Roundtable - Montclair State CHSS Island Tuesday, April 8th, 2008 Discussion on the new, required, Second Life viewer

JeanClaude Vollmar: wb AJ AJ Brooks: ty JeanClaude Vollmar grins AJ Brooks: ok - so - most of you are bodyless. thanks to the very problem we are going to discuss today Zotarah Shepherd: Oh Hi Sheila Stargazer Blazer giggles AJ Brooks: but lest start as we usually do Stargazer Blazer: Are we just a bunch of attachments? AJ Brooks: please type into chat your name, where you are from, and what you do. no need to wait, everyone can type at once and we can all look at chat history. I am AJ Brooks/Kelton, I am the Director of Technology Services at the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair STate University Stargazer Blazer: I'm an instructional designer from Miami University Kayella Kurrajong: Kayella Kurrajong, Vancouver-Canada- Safety Consultant AJ Brooks: I am also the prgram admin for this island Sadiqah Intikhab: Sadiqah Intikhab; South Dakota USA; professor of music Northern State University JeanClaude Vollmar: I'm JC (Jeff Le Blanc) from UNOH in Ohio. I'm the VP for IT. Robin Mochi: Robin from Portland Center Library of GFU. In Portland, Oregon, USA. Reference & Distance Services Librarian. Sheila Yoshikawa: I'm on the faculty at the University of Sheffield, UK, Department of Infrmation Studies AJ Brooks: i think thats everyone Zotarah Shepherd: MA in Edu student at Sonoma State University California. I teach Life Skills and how to use SL here and the teen grid. AJ Brooks: maybe next week's discussion shoudl be - Why do we all pu tup with this crap!" Sadiqah Intikhab: lol Sheila Yoshikawa: lol AJ Brooks: ok, so - today we are going to start off talking about the new viewer. clearly all of us are using it its required although there are other viewers out ther Stargazer Blazer: Can we define which version, AJ? AJ Brooks: is anyone here NOT using the new viewer - v 1.19.1.4 I think Zotarah Shepherd: Just unclick show imposters. AJ Brooks: I think this is the lasted one and its required Stargazer Blazer: I am not, not on this machine. But I had to install in on my work computer. AJ Brooks: yes - Second Life 1.19.1 (4) Apr 2 2008 11:59:37 (Second Life Release) hmm - I though it was a required upgrade. what version is everyone using click HELP and then ABOUT SECOND LIFE the top line Stargazer Blazer: Second Life 1.19.0 (5) Feb 28 2008 17:20:49 (Second Life Release) JeanClaude Vollmar: I'm thinking that if you went onto 1.19, you HAD to upgrade. Is anyone on 1.18 still? Kayella Kurrajong: 1.19.1 AJ Brooks: what comes after the .1 Kayella, there should be a number in Kayella Kurrajong: maybe .1 (not sure) Stargazer Blazer: You can find it in Help>About SL.. AJ Brooks: lol - ok - I like that Zotarah Shepherd: You can just copy and paste it to chat. AJ Brooks: HI Soraya - join us Sheila Yoshikawa: (4) I just downloaded it yesterday AJ Brooks: k. anyone experiencing any problems? Personally not what you may have heard about Sheila Yoshikawa: on this machine i see disembodies heads and feet a lot AJ Brooks: yes - me too Stargazer Blazer: Besides the usual freezing up and crashing without knowing about it? Kayella Kurrajong: avatars, in a distance, are very pixelated - AJ Brooks: where the map turns burnt brown, lol Robin Mochi: some avatars are grey and others are not on my machine AJ Brooks: and all of a sudden you're off the netowrk Sheila Yoshikawa: because it's not powerful enough I think - I saw it first on my husband's computer that he just got and it was amazing - no problems - but on my older laptop it creaks Zotarah Shepherd: No problems if you set Preferences low and unclick imposters if you want to see people. Slow rezz though. AJ Brooks: anyone else? we'll get back to solutions shortly - since I have something to say about that. :-) JeanClaude Vollmar: I'm seeing some of you in greys on some of most of your avi Sheila Yoshikawa: if i set things low i just see grey and blue things with no detail, ever lufpleh Obstreperous: AV imposters is the cause of diembodied Av's and pixel av at distance Zotarah Shepherd: It takes a while for grey AVs to show textures. AJ Brooks: ok - so - has everyone mentinoed whatever problems they are hjaving I plan to send this transcript to LL Stargazer Blazer: Yes, I have had that too, grey people. AJ Brooks: Probably Claudia, Pathfinder, and a few others they need to know what we are going through Zotarah Shepherd: That is a problem when I am enforcing a dress code. Sheila Yoshikawa: slower moving round - so more difficult to get where you're going - moving in spurts Robin Mochi: My macbook pro crashes in SL. I had it for one year and it never crashed until SL. AJ Brooks: bet you have the 8600 Nvdia card Kayella Kurrajong: yes..that moving in spurts is really annoying AJ Brooks: yes - very annoying Sheila Yoshikawa: it isn't crashing any more often with me, probably about the same as usual AJ Brooks: what other problems are you seeing? Robin Mochi: If I'm in SL for more than two-three hours, it crashes. Could the heat be a problem? It gets very hot running SL. JeanClaude Vollmar: This upgrade has cause video card problems with marginal PCs AJ Brooks: yes AJ Brooks: ok - so JeanClaude Vollmar: The viewer causes a warning now. AJ Brooks: for how many of you are these problems new AJ Brooks: since the upgrade Zotarah Shepherd: My graphics card is marginal. Not sure what to get that I can afford though. lufpleh Obstreperous: sorry, have to disagree JC Sheila Yoshikawa: it told me my CPU wasn't good enough as soon as it installed the new browser Robin Mochi: the grey avatars are new for me since the new viewer. JeanClaude Vollmar: The grey thing is new. And the pixilation at a distance. Kayella Kurrajong: new to me....all of them...before the upgrade I did not experience these problems Stargazer Blazer: Just the grey people. Sheila Yoshikawa: on the plus side if I don’t move the camera or me I think I'm seeing more detail Robin Mochi: The grey people here today just now finally fully rezzed and are now colored so eventually it works. Sheila Yoshikawa: but obviously one wants to move now and then ;-) AJ Brooks: ok - straw poll vote - by saying YES or NO - how many of you would go BACK to the previous viewer (sans windlight, etc...) if you had the chance AJ Brooks: YES lufpleh Obstreperous: NO Kayella Kurrajong: yes Zotarah Shepherd: No Sadiqah Intikhab: I've never experienced the old one Sheila Yoshikawa: yes on the machine I've got Robin Mochi: yes, I think. What is the advantage of this new viewer? AJ Brooks: ok - so 4-2-1 JeanClaude Vollmar: Yes AJ Brooks: 5-2-1 AJ Brooks: the new viewer has windlight build into it AJ Brooks: which has been in beta for a while AJ Brooks: funny thing is - on the machine I was using the windlight beta, I never had problems - and now I do lufpleh Obstreperous: you can run this viewer with Windlight turned off, so it has same performance as old pre-windlight viewer AJ Brooks: I LIE windlight AJ Brooks: LIKE Sheila Yoshikawa: I was oohing and ahhing on my husband's machine - but then I like looking at pretty scenery Zotarah Shepherd: If you want more detail and prettier skies and water the new viewer is great. You just have to wait for it to all rez. Robin Mochi: Am I the only one who doesn't know what windlight is? AJ Brooks: no Sadiqah Intikhab: no AJ Brooks: windlight is an addition to the viewer where the water looks real Sheila Yoshikawa: I think in terms of student engagement that IF one had the right technology it would make it look more attractive for students - but it's a big IF AJ Brooks: and the clouds look real AJ Brooks: and the light from the sun reflects on everything in a very real way Robin Mochi: okay, thanks. Mercury Barnes: Good for taking pictures because you can control the light to a fine detail. Zotarah Shepherd: Windlight shows us the pretty scenery - clouds water ripples reflections etc. AJ Brooks nods AJ Brooks: so - is this going to be a problem for our students? Mercury Barnes: Probably not. Robin Mochi: the crashing is a much bigger problem. AJ Brooks: hey mercury Mercury Barnes: It does seem a little less stable. Sheila Yoshikawa: it depends on the technical setup, really, if it was already a bit creaky this makes it worse Mercury Barnes: Especially in a loaded sim. Zotarah Shepherd: Well it depends on what speed and graphics cards they have Mercury Barnes: CPU Zotarah Shepherd: Oh and memory AJ Brooks: well - do we think our students have machines that are less than a year old? Stargazer Blazer: Yes, it is dependent on their computers. Sheila Yoshikawa: and they are put off and frustrated if they can't move around easily or see what's going on Mercury Barnes: CPU is easily more important than graphics chips for most. JeanClaude Vollmar: I've noticed that my laptop is slower now. But this PC is fine. Stargazer Blazer: My computer is over a year old, and it works. Sheila Yoshikawa: no, AJ, mine don't have such new machines on the whole Zotarah Shepherd: My computer is over 2 years old and works ok. Mercury Barnes: SL uses GL, implemented "a lot" in code, taxing the CPU greatly. Mercury Barnes: Dual Cores are about the minimum for SL to be "not limited by CPU." Sheila Yoshikawa: It's worse for laptops where the options for upgrading are fewer I believe lufpleh Obstreperous: 2.5 year old laptop with rubbish ATI express graphic card, new viewer has had no effect on performance Sheila Yoshikawa: on the whole Zotarah Shepherd: I have heard that sitting reduces lag so would everyone here please sit? AJ Brooks: you are very lucky, lufpleh AJ Brooks: lol Mercury Barnes: old wives tale, but a good ploy. :) AJ Brooks: true or not, I like that AJ Brooks: ROFL Zotarah Shepherd: Another chair always rezzes. Thank you Stargazer Blazer: My nearly 4 year old laptop still runs sl, but it's slow and hard to move. Things take a long time to rez. Mercury Barnes: We have the same issue with the ultra portables. AJ Brooks: three+year old PC with an upgraded graphics card - which ran fine until the new viewer AJ Brooks: with this one, it probably is the CPU, as Mercury was saying Zotarah Shepherd: If you are moving it takes more for work and sitting limits movement. Mercury Barnes: Funny, I had SL up for the Main Educause last Oct., didn't touch it, and it worked for Midwest Educause -- long time for compatibility. AJ Brooks: yes AJ Brooks: they h ad said they were NOT going to "require" updates anymore AJ Brooks: they haven't done one required for a long time AJ Brooks: I wish they'd left it that way AJ Brooks: things were working so well Robin Mochi: I am working with our distance ed faculty about SL as a place for classes events, etc. It's difficult to recommend when I'm not sure how stable it really is. Mercury Barnes: If it's security, they'll have too...the bug a month ago was a "buy land for 0L$ -- can't let this occur. JeanClaude Vollmar: The grid does seem to have a lot of problems with stability and being unavailable. lufpleh Obstreperous: well if you want improved stability you have to accept changes to get that stability AJ Brooks: but that wouldn't be in the viewer, would it - that sounds like back end coding Mercury Barnes: Evening and weekend "chats," seem best, scheduled class, a little dicier. JeanClaude Vollmar: It thought these past couple weeks were extremely difficult AJ Brooks: agreed Mercury Barnes: Back end melded with front end -- the fix likely broke the money aspect of the main viewer. lufpleh Obstreperous: past weeks problems not down to viewer problems though Kayella Kurrajong: totally agree AJ Brooks: well - Friday into sat was not Robin Mochi: yes, and now there are so many new virtual worlds that are being developed. JeanClaude Vollmar: It's OK is you're just game playing. But when you need stability for teaching and the like, how can you move along with the problems that have been occurring lately. Mercury Barnes: No, balky router. JeanClaude Vollmar: Could you imagine if our email systems were like this? lufpleh Obstreperous: previous weeks was asset server failures AJ Brooks: isp down time Mercury Barnes: Tough, I agree. AJ Brooks: so - what is taking so long for someone to come rushing up behind SL to take over in our hearts Stargazer Blazer: Do we need to bring up the transactions failing and the other various instability issues? They seem to ebb and flow. lufpleh Obstreperous: which are responsible for a lot of the grey av problems Stargazer Blazer: This is not the worst it has ever been, not by a long shot. AJ Brooks: no - but that was a LONG time ago - this SL should be WAY beyond these kinds of problems JeanClaude Vollmar smiles at Stargazer Robin Mochi: so is SL improving would you say? Those of you who have been using it a long while. JeanClaude Vollmar: That's kind of scary Mercury Barnes: I agree, as Havok 4 soaks in, they'll be less "grid griefing." AJ Brooks: is it improving AJ Brooks: over all - yes AJ Brooks: I'd have to say Stargazer Blazer: Oh, I just remembered a new issue, I sink when I hover. AJ Brooks: lest take a straw poll vote JeanClaude Vollmar: I haven't been using it even a year yet so my history is limited. AJ Brooks: Say Yes or No - Is the SL Experience improving in the recent months Sheila Yoshikawa: yes I sink slowly too Mercury Barnes: Yes. AJ Brooks: Yes lufpleh Obstreperous: the potential/possibility of improvement has never been better Robin Mochi: I really do not know... Zotarah Shepherd: Oh yes I sink when I hover too. I didn't think that was caused by the new viewer. Mercury Barnes: that's not a Yes or NO -- you're on the hook.) lufpleh Obstreperous: Yes Kayella Kurrajong: has not improved for me Robin Mochi: I signed up in 2006 went in looked around and left. Mercury Barnes: :) Sheila Yoshikawa: I didn't before Stargazer Blazer: It's been getting progressively worse, then better. :P So, my answer is yes. Robin Mochi: I've only started to seriously look at SL in the last three months. AJ Brooks: 4-0-2 Stargazer Blazer: I think it is, Zo. Mercury Barnes: I'm tired of my current problems and want a new set. :) AJ Brooks: ok - for us old timers - meaning about a year AJ Brooks: :-) AJ Brooks: Yes or No lufpleh Obstreperous: Yes AJ Brooks: Yes Stargazer Blazer: Yes Kayella Kurrajong: yes Robin Mochi: how is it better than before? In what ways? AJ Brooks: I figured it would be unanimous; I just wanted to see who'd been in over a year AJ Brooks: :-) Mercury Barnes: Less grid griefing. Robin Mochi: Is it more stable or less so? Kayella Kurrajong: I am experiencing less crashes Stargazer Blazer: Even a year ago, the same scalability issues exist today. AJ Brooks: no more Black Wednesdays Mercury Barnes: Grid, better, client, less so. Zotarah Shepherd: I have been in SL over a year. Robin Mochi: Stability is the biggest issue in my mind. Mercury Barnes: Very important for classes. lufpleh Obstreperous: system used to freeze/lag/crash with a lot less people logged in AJ Brooks nods Stargazer Blazer: No, AJ, but now we get grey Monday thru Friday. AJ Brooks: and problems that come up on Friday after Pacific Time closes and we're stuck with them for the weekend lufpleh Obstreperous: used to be shutdown for half a day every Wednesday Robin Mochi: Do any of you have students paying for credit courses in SL? AJ Brooks: yes – hybrid - we meet 1/2 of our classes right here Robin Mochi: Yes, hybrid is what we are looking at also. Kayella Kurrajong: no AJ Brooks: the other half on the RL campus Stargazer Blazer: It seems like the weekends are staffed. Mercury Barnes: No (except maybe 10, and SL is ancillary). lufpleh Obstreperous: disagree Aj, now there is more weekend support/cover Sheila Yoshikawa: well, not paying extra, but students see themselves more as consumers generally, so they complain when something doesn't work to the extent of having to postpone a class Robin Mochi: Okay, and those classes have worked out successfully? For how long has that been? AJ Brooks: well - as just said - they don't pay anything extra, but they are paying for their course and it has worked out well we meet on tue or thur from 5:15 to 6:30pm PDT Robin Mochi: great to hear that, AJ. Yes, if they are paying for their credits, it needs to work well. Mercury Barnes: Group chat and discussion gets very high marks with SL. Sheila Yoshikawa: I haven't had a huge number of classes in SL but fortunately so far they have been ok - in the sense of no outages AJ Brooks: and they get VERY frustrated when things don't work as expected and we've not met since this upgrade requirement Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, very frustrated Robin Mochi: Yes, and we are looking at adult learners, grad and doctoral students. They won't put up with too many problems. Mercury Barnes: Like the web in the early days.... AJ Brooks: well - yes - and if they are unhappy - and complain - the admin might pull support Mercury Barnes: We're years away from "commodity." AJ Brooks: not years Stargazer Blazer: who gets frustrated? Sheila Yoshikawa: students AJ Brooks: in 12 months we won't be having this conversation we'll be having ANOTHER conversation, but not this on Robin Mochi: exactly, they could even demand money back! AJ Brooks: one Stargazer Blazer: What sort of students? Robin Mochi: why do you say we won't be having this conversation? do you think it will all be worked out soon? AJ Brooks: they can only demand money back if they can prove the learning objectives were not met. Robin, yes - I think the issues we are talking about today will not be relevant - but we will have OTHER issues. this has changed SO Much in a year a year ago - there weren't even 1 million people in SL not there are over 13 not 13 people - lol - 13 million Robin Mochi: what types of Other issues do you suspect there will be? AJ Brooks: [sigh] I knew you were going to ask that LOL Mercury Barnes: It'll never happen, someone will pull out the multi-decade "longitudinal study going from film strips to web and the results that "it doesn't matter" -- kids with intelligent teachers are always a good mix, regardless of the venue. AJ Brooks: I don't know – really. I'm not sure I would have seen where we are today a year ago what will never happen, Mercury? Robin Mochi: true, technology is changing at an amazing rate. AJ Brooks: Mercury? Sheila Yoshikawa: hmm technology is but the turnover of computers in our labs isn't going at an amazing rate - slow and measured replacement - and a good no. of students don't have broadband access from home Mercury Barnes: What's changed in the last year is me, not SL (except for voice) -- it's getting that "first year of familiarity" that's key to VW's -- currently it's just a tad hard, easier next year, easier the following -- once "broken High School computer labs," can run VW's, they'll take off. Stargazer Blazer nods. AJ Brooks: well - I agree with you, mostly. I think overall things HAVE changed in the last year but we have changed with it also lufpleh Obstreperous: with increased numbers (accounts) comes increased variety of users and PC standards/abilities, there will be a lot more shouting/pain from those with less PC skills and poor systems AJ Brooks: only if they are paying, lufpleh if they are free account let them howl at the moon opps – sorry - ;-) Sheila Yoshikawa: well, we (in the sense of SL) have done as much (more?) changing than LL in terms of what is available to be explored etc - Stargazer Blazer: Thanks, AJ. lufpleh Obstreperous: you don’t have to a pay to scream, you only have to pay if you want someone to listen Sheila Yoshikawa: sorry, in the sense of SL *residents* AJ Brooks: lol Stargazer Blazer: How very elitist. AJ Brooks: lol true dat Mercury Barnes: I've worked with enough pragmatic ID's to "see the market." Right now, Facebook and social networking "rules," because it was able to leak into High Schools and Colleges. VW's are just starting to permeate the masses. Sheila Yoshikawa: showing it to people who'd dabbled a year or so ago - they seem impressed by what's happened Robin Mochi: Also, I would expect SL to be available on many of the newer cell phone/handheld Internet devices coming out within a year... AJ Brooks: what is elitist, Sstar? Robin Mochi: this is something I think could really make a difference for many... Mercury Barnes: SL is smart with the teen grid -- hard to do, but they need this feeder (and this will be so dicey with the laws the way they are). AJ Brooks: they arelreayd are - samsung has one out now Sheila Yoshikawa: yo, SL on the train ..... Stargazer Blazer: Saying that free accounts should not be able to participate in helping make SL better. Robin Mochi: yes, I have been following the Samsung news... lufpleh Obstreperous: SL is already available on mobile, in a very cut down non graphic form AJ Brooks: no no no - I didn't say that Robin Mochi: it's not quite ready from what I read. Robin Mochi: but very soon and others will follow. lufpleh Obstreperous: ajax i think its called Sheila Yoshikawa: non-graphic SL seems a contradiction ;-) AJ Brooks: what I said was - paid accounts screamin is twhat will really get the attention. I didn't say they shouldn't participate, i'm being pragmatic, though - this i, after all, a business AJ Brooks: and its nice to listen to everyone - and do what they say if you can - but you pay closer attention to those paying your bills AJ Brooks: or those paying the bills will stop paying attention Mercury Barnes: Voice, that's the most powerful teaching tool in "pedestrian use" and that what the phone connection allows. Stargazer Blazer: Well, of course. If you have a free account, there is no way to complain. AJ Brooks: you can file reports no? Mercury Barnes: but there should be a way, as even "free account" users spend and allow money to be made. Stargazer Blazer: Only for certain issues. AJ Brooks: jira, you mean? can't anyone file a support ticket, also? Robin Mochi: I believe there will be a huge move to eLearning on handheld devices. SL on handhelds devices could really be valuable. Stargazer Blazer: That too, but a basic support ticket, you can only report log in issues. lufpleh Obstreperous: you can file bugj/ira reports, free account just does not get personal one to one support like support ticket AJ Brooks: ah – ok - yes - on the handheld device thing, btw agree wiht you robin Mercury Barnes: What they need is a java "downgrade" client that can allow anything to see the basics and hear voice. AJ Brooks: interesting, any other final thoughts on this topic? JeanClaude Vollmar: That's a great idea Mercury AJ Brooks: or, shoudl I say, topics Stargazer Blazer: Robin, I can't imagine SL on a blackberry. I see it moving more toward VR, where you can wear something in rl that allows you to move around and interact. AJ Brooks: i can see it on my iPhone, easily,:-) lufpleh Obstreperous: believe the ajax mobile viewer was actually written by someone on the teen grid AJ Brooks: touch screen to move flick up to fly, flick down to land, tap to click Robin Mochi: Yes, on the iPhone. And with the new Android devices being released. Stargazer Blazer: How do you get SL on an iPhone. Mercury Barnes: phones change so quickly...:) Stargazer Blazer: ? AJ Brooks: if you cant' tell - I LOOOOOOOOVE my iPhone. (it was a joke - over excited about SL on my iPHone) :-) JeanClaude Vollmar: I think we're all familiar with resolution differences between the various devices we use. So it wouldn't be unusual if SL had the same with various viewers for various devices. Robin Mochi: Since samsung has been able to make SL on a phone work, all the others should as well... lufpleh Obstreperous imagnes the carnage on the roads as people drive while playin g SL!! lol AJ Brooks: now if we can only get the carriers to make the calls work Robin Mochi: but an iPhone and similar devices allows for a better experience. AJ Brooks: lol Mercury Barnes: Seeing the powerpoints and hearing the voice -- more than enough for many courses. AJ Brooks: helping out on of our ID with testing BlackBoard on my iPhone Sheila Yoshikawa: hmm - but if it's only ppt plus voice you could do that on the web Stargazer Blazer: Why not put it in your course management system, Mercury? Robin Mochi: in the US, most typical undergrads are tied to their handheld devices. My daughter sleeps with her iPHone. Mercury Barnes: Yes, but it is useful to have "lifeline" access. Robin Mochi: she only uses her laptop for word processing. AJ Brooks: yes - but on the iPhone - they can get web access and PP and voice can be on the web Mercury Barnes: I'd much rather be here, than not, but if I can't, at least let me read the text, or talk. AJ Brooks: SL would have to bring somethign different ot the table mobilly Robin Mochi: Personally, I think I would rather use my laptop for SL... but who knows, maybe the handheld devices won't crash! Mercury Barnes: Two, three years, the micro-projectors will render the "screen limitation" of phones moot. AJ Brooks: as long as the drivers don't either - pun intended Sheila Yoshikawa: it's nice to dream, Robin ;-)) lufpleh Obstreperous: lol Robin Mochi: yeah, who knows what the future holds, really. Mercury Barnes: I'm sorry, but the idea of the web on a 2" screen is simply dumb -- we will progress. :) AJ Brooks: so, last straw poll of the night Robin Mochi: Mercury, I don't think you have used an iPhone. It really does make a difference. AJ Brooks: Yes or Now - How many of you, a year ago - so March 07, would have thought we (virtual worlds) would be where we are today? Mercury Barnes: My eyes are older -- even 24" is getting "small." AJ Brooks notes - the iPhone does not have a 2" screen Zotarah Shepherd: I did. Stargazer Blazer: Where are we? :P Robin Mochi: not me. Sheila Yoshikawa: well, I didn't get into SL til last May, so probably "no" Kayella Kurrajong: I had hoped so lufpleh Obstreperous: yes JeanClaude Vollmar: yes, a lot has happened I think AJ Brooks: ok - 2 and 2 Mercury Barnes: Yes. Stargazer Blazer: Yes, AJ Brooks: 4-3, 4-2, sorry, well - I'd say no, so its 4-3 lufpleh Obstreperous: expect by this Xmas will have 100k online con current AJ Brooks: the growth rate is explosive, I never thought that from under 1mil to 13mil - in less than a year Mercury Barnes: Numbers are going exponential, tech progression is linear -- both are expected. AJ Brooks: virtually unheard of - pun intended again Stargazer Blazer: Yes, luf, if the grid can handle it. lufpleh Obstreperous: thats what the new viewer and havok 4 server are for Stargazer Blazer: It was in the Horizon Report in 2006, which is why I am not surprised that we are here now. Zotarah Shepherd: The congressional committee will help to ligitimize SL as a teaching tool I think. Robin Mochi: So would you mind if I ask one last question?... Mercury Barnes: That they took it from 10K to 60K to today, tells me their model is scalable -- huge, massive, difference between 10K and 60K (not fold, but at least an order or magnititude doubled -- tells me their approach is scalable). AJ Brooks: amen. that was a great meeting Mercury Barnes: A year, sorry... Robin Mochi: Would you guys recommend SL then for distance ed courses? Grad and doctoral? Stargazer Blazer: I don't look at the account numbers, I look at the number of active in world. Robin Mochi: Should I put my neck out and recommend to the dean? Zotarah Shepherd: Yes to all of that Robin Stargazer Blazer: Robin, I'd say... it depends. AJ Brooks: well - folks - I like to keep meetings to the time planned. Thank you all for coming. We meet each week here at this same time, so please come back. If you want to stick around, please feel free Sheila Yoshikawa: I'd say, yea, but with some f2f induction of some kind if possible Zotarah Shepherd: I am doing that at SSU. Sheila Yoshikawa: we'd generally have a short induction for a distance course anyway JeanClaude Vollmar: I would recommend it if used for it's strengths Mercury Barnes: Chat, presence, definately, as that is what is so sorely missing in upper level programs, definite yes to evenings and weekends with fellow students, group projects, with the intructor "dropping by." Stargazer Blazer: I think it depends on teh course, the teacher, and etc. Robin Mochi: Ok, Zotarah and Sheila. I am talking about hybrid so some f2f as well. lufpleh Obstreperous: AJ, thanks for hosting Stargazer Blazer: Thanks, AJ, I have to go Sheila Yoshikawa: for blended learning, i think definitely Stargazer Blazer: See you all later. Sheila Yoshikawa: bye AJ Brooks: my pleasure, as always Robin Mochi: This has been really helpful and a productive time for me. Thanks so much! JeanClaude Vollmar: bye AJ Brooks: I love learning form you all Zotarah Shepherd: Some members of US congress have avatars. Sheila Yoshikawa: thanks from me too Kayella Kurrajong: Good session, thanks everyone Mercury Barnes: Presence is so key to programs, and so often missing -- and with today's kids, it is very, very, important -- they are nothing without the feeling they belong to a group. AJ Brooks: as soon as I can, I"ll have the notecard here for the asking lufpleh Obstreperous: cant wait for the first SL sneator/congress scandal! Zotarah Shepherd: Every bit of positive news about SL puts us that much closer to seeing SL as an accepted teaching venue. Mercury Barnes: Yeah, nice session. :) Sheila Yoshikawa: bye all AJ Brooks: bye sheila Kayella Kurrajong: Bye everyone,,,,must run too Mercury Barnes: Thanks. :) AJ Brooks: bye Kayella, JC - good to see you, as always Zotarah Shepherd: Me too. Bye everyone. Thanks AJ JeanClaude Vollmar: See you all again soon. AJ Brooks: take it easy, Mercury - see you next week? lufpleh Obstreperous: bye all AJ Brooks: Bye Z, take care, Lufpleh - nice to meet you, poof