080701

SL Education Roundtable July 1st, 2008 Open Grid Initiatives in Higher Ed

[14:23] AJ Brooks: hello - you here for the meeting? [14:23] Efuturist Daviau: Hello - well I've been attending the 5yr event - and have lost my way - I have bee here before - you? [14:24] AJ Brooks: lol - well - a search on the MAP for SL5B will set you back on course - this is where the SL EDUCATION ROUNDTABLE meets - in fact, we'll be meeting tonight in about an hour [14:24] Efuturist Daviau: THank you - Yes a bit later I think - AJ thanks for your help [14:25] AJ Brooks: yup - ok, see you later ehn - and enjoy the b'day party - oh - your welcome :-) [15:29] Aldrif Avro: Hello, AJ! [15:29] AJ Brooks: hi everyone - as usually, we'll wait just a few minutes before getting started - for those sitting up in the amphitheater - please come down and join us here at the table - there are plenty of seats [15:30] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Hey [15:30] JeanClaude Vollmar: Hey [15:30] Cilian McCullough: HI! - (en->de) HI! - Chat session? - (en->de) Chat-Session? [15:31] Aldrif Avro: So sorry everyone, I need SL gait training! [15:31] Charlie Crabe: ok [15:31] AJ Brooks: grab an open one - one more will always wshow up [15:31] CDB Barkley: I often wonder why we sit so much in SL [15:31] Cilian McCullough: tx - (en->de) TX [15:31] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: I'd like some of what Charlie's had [15:31] Charlie Crabe: :) [15:31] Philled Graves: cuz my feet get tired [15:31] JeanClaude Vollmar grins - Isn't that a funny human thing? [15:31] AJ Brooks: lol - CDB doesn't like to be told to "sit" [15:31] Charlie Crabe: I also dance a lot :) [15:31] CDB Barkley: nor "roll over" [15:31] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: So do I--in rl [15:31] AJ Brooks: lol [15:32] CDB Barkley: Charlie needs a tranquilier - Weeee! ^.^ [15:32] Charlie Crabe: :)) - right now Im ok, thanx [15:32] Carrilin Heliosense: ooh, now i need to go find a chair dance animation [15:32] AJ Brooks: come on down folks and have a seat around the table - we'll be getting started in just a minute [15:32] Philled Graves: or he needs to find the kill animation on the tools world menu [15:32] Charlie Crabe: I think I didnt count the seats around the table properly before... Im gonna bump into the wall [15:32] MaryJoesphine Glas: I don't think there is enough room for us all [15:33] AJ Brooks: plenty of room - there will always be one more seat than person [15:33] Cilian McCullough: It's a magic table! - (en->de) Es ist eine magische Tisch! [15:33] AJ Brooks: it is magic indeed - its part of the full-paid Mystitool [15:33] CDB Barkley: The table that ate the sim [15:33] Irix Ladybird: cool ;) - oh really? interesting! [15:33] Cilian McCullough: ! [15:33] Charlie Crabe: if this keeps on growing [15:33] JeanClaude Vollmar thinks, "I wonder what the limit is?" - Kinda of like way back when, when they'd see how many would fit into a VW bug. [15:33] AJ Brooks: 60 I think - let me look [15:34] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Hey, Cillian--why do I see each of your comments twice--second time in green, with an x in front of your name [15:34] AJ Brooks: 40 [15:34] Cilian McCullough: just turned off translator - sorry [15:34] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Ahhh [15:34] AJ Brooks: hi everyone and welcome - my name is AJ Brooks and I'm your friendly moderators for our weekly SL Education Roundtable [15:34] Philled Graves: or a phoneboot - *booth - for those of us old enough to remember one [15:35] JeanClaude Vollmar laughs, "That too" [15:35] AJ Brooks: A few notes before we get started - please join our group SL EDUCATION ROUNDTABLE - if you can't find it in search, IM me and I'll send you and invite after the meeting [15:36] AJ Brooks: also - In Kenzo is going to be announcing the wimmers of the Project we've all be voting on - If they announce before we break up, I"ll pass the news along - in either event, I'll give everyone the URL and a note - so we will probably end on time this week so you can attend that - it promise to be an intersting conversation [15:37] Zotarah Shepherd: What is the topic? [15:37] AJ Brooks: This week we'll be talking about Project Wonderland and open grid iniatives - we have a special guest, CDB Barkley is here to talk about what NMC is doing in that respect - BUT before we get started with that most of you know the drill - tell us who you are, where you are from, and what you do. No need to wait for other folks, type away and enter - we'll all catch up in chat history [15:37] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: curiouser and curiouser :) [15:38] Philled Graves: Rick Shaw (sl=Philled Graves) Director College Technical Services Ventura College [15:38] JeanClaude Vollmar: I'm JC (Jeff Le Blanc) and am the VP for IT at the University of Northwestern Ohio [15:38] Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA in Education (technology and psychology) student at Sonoma State University in northern California working an a curriculum thesis project: Teaching and Learning Life-Skills in Second Life. I plan to buy an island of Immersive Interactive Educational buildsabout Life-skills for teachers and parents. [15:38] CDB Barkley wishes he could type better [15:38] Grinn Pidgeon: sed to be from Mercyhurst College until they eliminated my office; still technically the owner of their island - used to be, I meant [15:38] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: RubyTuesday/Donna Murphy, Edinboro University of PA. About to embark on an SL teaching project [15:38] mOOn Jaecies: René Sadae - U of Hawai'i - nursing/health sciences - honolulu, hawai'i [15:38] Grinn Pidgeon: [15:38] SpelNJLT Thibedeau: Lauren Thomas, graduate student Norfolk State University, research in engineering education [15:38] AJ Brooks: I'm AJ Brooks, I'm AJ Kelton in real life, I'm the DIrector of Emerging Instructional Technology for the COllege of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University in New Jersey, about 6 miles from NYC [15:38] Gwenette Writer: Gwenette Writer sl developer for Kennesaw State University Georgia new project:) [15:39] Jennette Forager: Jenn FOrager= Epoch Institute here in SL. supporting educators [15:39] Lark Jonson: Aston University, UK - Electronic Engineering [15:39] Charlie Crabe: I am a math teacher from Spain (high school level) [15:39] Evert Snook: I'm Evert Snook, I'm from Louisiana, I teach Psychology at the U. of LA [15:39] Cilian McCullough: VP Professional Association of Diving Instructors, owner of Dive World sim, here to explore application to rl training, some cool stuff already... [15:39] MaryJoesphine Glas: Colgate University STudnet Tech manager [15:39] Irix Ladybird: Italian researcher at the University of Sapienza, Rome. Starting a research on Second Life and Wonderland potentialities for education [15:39] Robin Mochi: Robin Ashford, Reference & Distance Services Librarian, Portland, Oregon, USA [15:39] CDB Barkley is aka Alan Levine, VP Community/CTO for New Media Consortium, logging in from Strawberry, Arizona where it is actually raining [15:39] Cathrin Laville: cathrin laville, teaching geography methods at the university Duisburg-Essen in germany [15:39] Blythe Quandry: Kevin Gulliver, UNLV, Lecturer of Nursing. [15:39] Claire Nostram: Claire Lichack from Montclair State U - administrator in housing dept. [15:39] Kayako Mayako: Kayako Mayako (Kay McLennan in RL) -- I teach online business studies courses at Tulane University (School of Continuing Studies). This summer I have training & teaching builds set up on the SW corner of Tulane Island. [15:39] Carrilin Heliosense: Carri Manchester, Olana Stste Historic Site, Hudson, NY [15:39] Kavon Zenovka: Kae Novak from Front Range Community College [15:39] AJ Brooks: have we missed anyone? - Those up in the amphitheater, please do join us down here at the roundtable [15:40] Spang Nastula: e-learning (ESL) manager, UK [15:40] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Someone's going to have to smack Charlie. He's aggravating my ADHD - Charlie's the dancin dude [15:40] Aldrif Avro: University of San Francisco, School of Nursing--and I'll stay in this seat! Who's from Portland, OR? Please IM me sometime, I get up there every so often [15:40] Prospero Frobozz: I just slipped in... Rob Knop, former astronomy professor, now associated with MICA (an in-world astronomy group). [15:40] CDB Barkley slips charlie a lude [15:40] SpelNJLT Thibedeau: hahaha Ruby - me too [15:40] AJ Brooks: ok - I"m busy moderating and checking other things, who is Charlie and what is her doing? - lol [15:41] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: [15:41] AJ Brooks: *he [15:41] Charlie Crabe: is that me? [15:41] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: yup [15:41] Kaizer Sommer: César Sánchez Director FUNDESUPERIOR, non profit educative Foundation from colombia [15:41] AJ Brooks: ok - I'm missing it - but maybe thats better [15:41] SpelNJLT Thibedeau: Yessire! [15:41] AJ Brooks: welcome everyone [15:41] CDB Barkley: Quite a crowd [15:41] AJ Brooks: one more little thing - please tell me how you heard about todays meeting - if a group, which group, if a list, which list, if events, which catagory [15:42] Claire Nostram: sled [15:42] SpelNJLT Thibedeau: SLED [15:42] Prospero Frobozz: I just saw it on the "Discussion" events category [15:42] Kaizer Sommer: SLED [15:42] Charlie Crabe: SL real life education [15:42] mOOn Jaecies: SLED events calendar [15:42] Jennette Forager: SLED [15:42] Spang Nastula: events > discussion + education [15:42] CDB Barkley: sled, AJ's IM [15:42] mOOn Jaecies: plus ur announcement [15:42] Lark Jonson: SLED [15:42] Evert Snook: SLED calendar [15:42] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: SLED, plus I'm finall getting used to the calendar--every Tuesday, 6:30 EST [15:42] Cathrin Laville: real life education [15:42] Dennie Ling: Real Life Education in Second Life Group [15:42] AJ Brooks: excellent [15:42] Zage Farman: Frederic Emam-Zade, Executive Director of FUNGLODE - Fundacion Global Democracia y Desarrollo in Dominican Republic (FUNGLODE Virtual Campus in Ontos Island in SL) [15:42] Kayako Mayako: SLED & EDUCAuse Virtual Worlds, ISTE... [15:42] AJ Brooks: thanks everyone [15:42] Philled Graves: NMC Member, SL Education Roundtable [15:42] Blythe Quandry: Saw it on another persons profile [15:43] JeanClaude Vollmar: Academic CIO, EDUCAUSE VW, and the SL Ed Roundtable [15:43] AJ Brooks: well - This week we are going to talk about Sun's Project Wonderland [15:43] AJ Brooks: which I keep going to type Project Wonderful [15:43] AJ Brooks: LOL [15:43] Philled Graves: yeah... what JeanClaude said too [15:43] AJ Brooks: and other open grid/source iniatives [15:43] Zotarah Shepherd: wow 35 people here AJ. *smiles* [15:43] Gwenette Writer: RLE [15:43] AJ Brooks: Alan from NMC agreed to be out special guest today and I thought I'd give him the first little bit to talk about what NMC is doing [15:43] AJ Brooks: and then open the discussion up - so - with that said 0- CDB, the floor is yours [15:44] CDB Barkley: Thanks AJ.... the details part is still short - per se - but the NMC's efforts have always been framed in Virtual Worlds - it just so happened the last 2 years was largely focused on SL - http://sl.nmc.org - and we recently entered a partnership with Sun to do some work in Wonderland [15:45] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: I'm sorry, CDB, but I can't find you. Would you stand up for a sec? - thx [15:45] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: [15:45] CDB Barkley: which is an open source VW built on a gaming platform called Dark Star - It is mostl certainly NOT Sl - so one should look at it with different perspectives - Its benefits include that it can be more "controlled" run behind firewalls connected to authentication services [15:46] Kaizer Sommer: open source means evrebody coud get it? [15:46] CDB Barkley: and then it is more built on the ability to collaborate and application sharing - but... - I'd let you know - that it is very very very new - Yes Kaizer [15:47] CDB Barkley: and I'd call it alpha –ish - maybe beta - and doing anything custom calls for some serious java skills - that said - the NMC's plans are like in SL ¬- we plan to create spaces and events that are public - to give people a chance to experience it - and we will offer custom building and hosting services - for orgs that want to open their new spaces - it is NOT a user generated world - the avatars are, well ugly [15:48] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: How is it different from SL [15:48] Zotarah Shepherd: : ( [15:49] CDB Barkley: it has builtin chat and voice - What is good is that 3d objects can be built in outside tools (Maya, etc) and brought in [15:49] Cilian McCullough: So no interoperability with SL? [15:49] Prospero Frobozz: Certainly no interoperability now; maybe some year. [15:49] CDB Barkley: No directl connect yet with SL - that is a grail IMHO - Its for a different focus than we do in SL [15:50] Cilian McCullough: perhaps, but inevitable - or we all lose [15:50] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: I don't mean to be cheeky, but what does my hero, Jeremy Kemp, think of Wonderland? [15:50] Charlie Crabe: is it like a 3D game environment, similar to half life engine? [15:50] CDB Barkley: Hmmm – maybe - IN function like Qwaq [15:50] Robin Mochi: CDB, is it more like Qwaq? More or less a virtual conference room? [15:50] AJ Brooks: Charlie, I am IMing you - please respond. thx [15:50] CDB Barkley: Ideally, you can share any app you run on a desktop - Co-browse web sites - work on shared apps together [15:51] Robin Mochi: yes, that sounds like Qwaq in function for sure. [15:51] CDB Barkley: and there are some interesting potentials for connecting to other net apps - But each server is its own world - really islands - and not sure if there is a central avatar/identity manager - yet [15:52] Zotarah Shepherd: Are immersive interactive educational builds, like we have in SL, possible in Wonderland? [15:52] CDB Barkley: Absolutely - But at this time there are not 3d building tools inside the app [15:53] Gwenette Writer: who builds if not users? [15:53] Brett Bjornson: What client/system is needs to experience it? [15:53] Irix Ladybird: it's ideal for companies, I think [15:53] Gwenette Writer: import builds from 3d apps? [15:53] CDB Barkley: Runs on Windows, Mac is a theory - I understand it wont run on Leopard [15:53] AJ Brooks: theory? - ugh - count me out [15:53] Cilian McCullough: I'm leaving now! [15:53] AJ Brooks: lol [15:53] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: :) [15:53] CDB Barkley: it needs 32 bit - Its really really early folks - Not quite the same Zotarah [15:53] Zotarah Shepherd: So you can, rez, shape, texture, buy and assemble things in Wonderland? [15:53] mOOn Jaecies: theory? [15:53] AJ Brooks: oh - ok [15:53] Zage Farman: im running it on a mac with Leopard [15:53] Cilian McCullough: you just hit the Mac button - only choking [15:54] AJ Brooks: CDB, can you talk about the porting over of avatars? [15:54] CDB Barkley: Hey - When we talked to the guys from Sun - They all had Macs - what mean ye "porting of avatars" [15:54] Cilian McCullough: ! [15:54] AJ Brooks: BTW - everyone - be nice to CBD - he's not here to represent the entire open source movement - he's here because NMC is doing amaxzing and ground breaking things [15:54] Kaizer Sommer: don run in GNU LINUX? - can we come in Wonderland beta? [15:54] AJ Brooks: I thought we'd all ilke to know about them - going from here to there [15:54] CDB Barkley: I think so Kaizer - not there yet [15:55] Jennette Forager: porting=crossing from SL to other grids [15:55] Zotarah Shepherd: It might help to have some chart of the differences between SL and Wonderland. Advantages and limitations. [15:55] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Excellent idea, Z [15:56] Greyce Congrejo: I'd be most interested in the comparison [15:56] CDB Barkley: Lets not compare a mature VW and one just coming out of the gates - Yes Gwettete - You'd have to ask Sun [15:56] Gwenette Writer: we can work together in say Word in WL yes, not possible in sl correct? [15:56] Philled Graves: i'm not sure i would lable SL as Mature, just yet [15:56] Irix Ladybird: I think the best way to know Wonderland is to enter and try to experience it [15:56] Grinn Pidgeon: what are Sun's goals for it? [15:56] Cilian McCullough: well, how about advantages? Things learned from SL? Stability? [15:56] Zotarah Shepherd: Ok then the expected potential. [15:56] SpelNJLT Thibedeau: i've been in wonderland a couple times, it is definitely different [15:56] Kavon Zenovka: CDB, do you think reluctant adminstrators will find it more acceptable than SL? [15:56] Topher Zwiers: How long do you think it will take for the open source community around PW to mature? - to be robust enough to support educational uses of PW? [15:56] AJ Brooks: FOlks - give Alan time to answer one question before hitting him with others [15:57] Gwenette Writer: How do we get in? :) [15:57] AJ Brooks: or perhaps save the questions until we open the meeting up - are the NMC places that people can check out? [15:57] Jennette Forager laughs [15:57] Greyce Congrejo: How do we access it? [15:57] CDB Barkley: Admins might more like the contriolled access aspects [15:57] Cilian McCullough: ok [15:57] mOOn Jaecies: so CDB, if ur all invested n building in SL n making things happen there, u personally, when u look at what's going to happen w/Wonderlanad, what would draw u 2 invest some of ur time there? [15:57] CDB Barkley: Look to the media grid site for access - they did abig dem 2 weeks ago - can dig the url - later [15:57] Zotarah Shepherd: If you have a private island you can make it controlled access. [15:57] Greyce Congrejo: Thanks, that would be helpful [15:58] CDB Barkley: Its different Zotrarah - more thna access [15:58] Prospero Frobozz: Zotarah : what you can't do, though, is prevent accounts in SL from going places you don't want them to.... [15:58] CDB Barkley: logins linked to LDAP - run behind firewalls - okay AJ< take over while i dig some urls [15:58] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Will you share the url with us? is it text, or mancinima, or what? [15:58] CDB Barkley is chatted out [15:58] Prospero Frobozz: So if you're a college administrator who didn't learn the lesson of the Internet (i.e. you can't contain it, so don't try), you may want to be able to keep your students and "official accounts" from going to unseemly places. [15:58] AJ Brooks: ok gang, so how many people - by saying yes - have even heard of the Education Grid iniative? [15:58] Zotarah Shepherd: You can on the teen grid and when students have private accounts [15:58] CDB Barkley: yes propsero [15:58] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Hey, AJJ--why don't you open it up for questions :) [15:58] AJ Brooks: [15:59] Jennette Forager: yes [15:59] Kavon Zenovka: yes [15:59] Penelope Drucker: yes [15:59] Laural McCallen: yes [15:59] Brett Bjornson: yes [15:59] Philled Graves: yes [15:59] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: yes [15:59] AJ Brooks: excellent [15:59] Zotarah Shepherd: yes [15:59] Kayako Mayako: yes [15:59] Topher Zwiers: yes [15:59] mOOn Jaecies: oh cool, that's reason enuf 4 many situations [15:59] Greyce Congrejo: yes.... [15:59] Zage Farman: yes [15:59] Robin Mochi: yes [15:59] AJ Brooks: was anyone here today - other than CDB - at the event two weeks ago? [15:59] Penelope Drucker: yes [15:59] SpelNJLT Thibedeau: yesyes [15:59] Kavon Zenovka: yes [15:59] Greyce Congrejo: the roundtable? [16:00] AJ Brooks: holy cow! most of you have heard of it - excellent [16:00] SpelNJLT Thibedeau: yes [16:00] Robin Mochi: the SUN event, AJ? [16:00] CDB Barkley: http://immersiveeducation.org/ [16:00] Penelope Drucker: the launch atSun [16:00] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: thx, CDN [16:00] AJ Brooks: no - i'm sorry - was anyone at the Media Grid event two weeks ago that demonstrated the EDucation Grid [16:00] Robin Mochi: yes, I got in finally for the last 5 min. [16:00] AJ Brooks: other than CDB [16:00] Penelope Drucker: yes [16:00] Zotarah Shepherd: However where I used to support an education grid, now I think of how much we would loose. So much created already. [16:00] CDB Barkley: http://mediagrid.org/news/2008-06_Education_Grid.html [16:00] Gwenette Writer: yes [16:00] Topher Zwiers: I was not - but attended a session at NMC on Project Wonderland. [16:00] Penelope Drucker: i got in also [16:00] Kavon Zenovka: yes and went into wonderland [16:00] AJ Brooks: Penelope, what are your impressions - Kavon, Greyce, what about you also - impressions? [16:01] Greyce Congrejo: I'm involved with them as well [16:01] Penelope Drucker: I was not there for long tht first day - I tried to go back and the main grids were full - I did not get to much - it was very primitive - I visited a less bsy grid [16:01] Zotarah Shepherd: Museums art galleries, space builds, literature Alive etc. [16:01] Greyce Congrejo: I wasn't there...just discovering the site... [16:01] AJ Brooks: yes - this is a baby step - there is no boudt that this was a first step for open grids [16:02] Kavon Zenovka: I think that the suits will like it, it's not as a wild with endless psossibilities the way SL is. [16:02] Topher Zwiers: I blogged my impressions following the session at NMC Conference at: http://tinyurl.com/5mk2kt [16:02] mOOn Jaecies: yes Kavon [16:02] CDB Barkley: ahh try http://theeducationgrid.org/ [16:02] Penelope Drucker: our students will live in a world of endless possiblities [16:02] Prospero Frobozz: AJ : you say this is a first step for open grids. How would you compare it's state, progress, and direction to those of OpenSim? - ...but humans are naturally control freaks, and endless possibilities make people nervous :) [16:02] CDB Barkley: We do to Penelope [16:02] AJ Brooks: I'm not sure where open sim is at the moment, so I can't speak to that - Is anyone here familiar enough with OpenSIm to talk about it? [16:02] Zotarah Shepherd: What we need in SL is to move all the XXX "Mature" material to a seperate grid. [16:03] Knox Kappler: wtf? [16:03] Penelope Drucker: or restrict accesss - but that wont happen now [16:03] AJ Brooks: Z - thats a wild issue - one for another meeting -s ince I'm sure others (including me) might disagree [16:03] mOOn Jaecies: YES Zo!! [16:03] CDB Barkley: OpenSim is reverse engneered the SL client [16:03] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: That might make a good topic for future discussion... [16:03] Zotarah Shepherd: ok [16:03] CDB Barkley: can run a Vworld on a server, or even your laptop [16:03] AJ Brooks: i agree - perhaps next week - [16:04] CDB Barkley: It is coser to an SL experience [16:04] AJ Brooks: have they got scripting working - and money - or are those still being worked on? [16:04] CDB Barkley: and folks at IBM have a concept of tping there from SL - money still being worked on [16:04] AJ Brooks nods [16:05] AJ Brooks: so - since many people are famliar with open gird iniatives - what do you think the benefits are - we'll get to the negatives in a second - wow - did you guys get shy all of a sudden? lol [16:05] Penelope Drucker: being able to transfer your avatoar between them [16:06] AJ Brooks: behhaving nicely in front of our guest! LOL - ok - portability [16:06] Irix Ladybird: it should be easier to develop applications running in open grid... [16:06] CDB Barkley rolls over and yawns [16:06] AJ Brooks: what else? [16:06] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: AJ--would you please define the term "open grid initiatives" for the newbs? I'm familiar with some of them, but I'd like a definition [16:06] Philled Graves: an open source / open platform environ would promote the same type of development we've seen in other inititives... perhaps even competion for new features that are portable between platforms [16:06] Kavon Zenovka: ease of use for additional educators [16:06] AJ Brooks: think open source sofware - same concept - does that help? [16:07] Charlie Crabe: what ages are we aiming at? university students? teenagers? [16:07] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: uhm...yah [16:07] Penelope Drucker: not having all the power in one grid - control distributed [16:07] Philled Graves: why is an age range relavant? [16:07] AJ Brooks: well - we focus here mostly on Main Grid aged, but we do get many teen grid folks - so - school age [16:07] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Aaaaaaahhhh... [16:08] Zotarah Shepherd: I am on both grids [16:08] Cilian McCullough: K-12 applications... [16:08] MaryJoesphine Glas: do college students even use SL.. [16:08] AJ Brooks: running our own grid would eliminate the problem of bridging from teen sl to main grid [16:08] CDB Barkley: There was someone working on OpenSim for an elemenrtary level audience, pre-teen Grid [16:08] SpelNJLT Thibedeau: YES! [16:08] AJ Brooks: oh my goodness yes! - most of us are in the higher education arena [16:08] Spang Nastula: less need to (re)train students - they could access the same resources / classes via their preferred platform [16:08] Robin Mochi: yes, distance education is huge for adult students in SL [16:08] mOOn Jaecies: Yes, Mary! - excuse my limited understanding, but... if users can't build, then we go shopping until we find what will work for us? [16:08] Penelope Drucker: right Spang [16:08] CDB Barkley: MG/TG is rather an arbitrary border [16:08] Charlie Crabe: I think age is important, materials are quite different if address to young people or older ones [16:08] AJ Brooks: well - its legal arbitrary tho [16:09] Prospero Frobozz: Well, in the USA, "age 18" is a major transition legally - Right, what AJ said [16:09] Cilian McCullough: big opportunities and responsibilities in K-12 [16:09] CDB Barkley: yes - but when I turn 18 I dont leave everything behind [16:09] Gwenette Writer: running your own grid allows you complete control in your private area and interoperability WILL offer mashup experience so best of both for suits and reality envelpe pushers [16:09] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Actually, that's a multi-layered question. Would college students be using SL if it weren't required for a course? nother topic, nother day [16:09] AJ Brooks: and it also lets you develop for it, like luinux – linux - well - THAT part of it is arbitray CDB - hving to leave it all behind is silly [16:10] Prospero Frobozz: Note that it wasn't strictly reverse-engineering of the SL client that led to OpenSim... after all, the SL client itself is Open Source. [16:10] Gwenette Writer: and your own grid allows you to control your creations a bit better. . . an issue woth content in sl right now - with [16:10] AJ Brooks: mOOn - that is only Wonderland - not open grid or other open source [16:10] CDB Barkley: the server is reverse engineered [16:10] mOOn Jaecies: ohhh [16:10] Gwenette Writer: so you could NOT control your own space in open source grids? [16:10] Topher Zwiers: RubyTuedsay - I doubt it... "creepy treehouse" [16:10] Prospero Frobozz: I'm not sure it's really reverse engineered so much as written to work with the protocols expoed by the client source. [16:10] AJ Brooks: what do we think some of the negatives might be - of open source? [16:11] Prospero Frobozz: Gwenette : anybody who can view anything digital can copy it... It may take more or less effort depending on the platform, but it can't be prevented. [16:11] Cilian McCullough: complete collapse of the SL business model! - they are right - but it may be the key issue [16:11] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: yah--I find that disturbing. Maybe we can discuss it here sometime [16:11] AJ Brooks: well - some say that is going to happen anyway - of course they are - it is inevitable - which is why, if LL is smart, they are working on mortphing to the next big thing [16:11] Prospero Frobozz: When you say the SL business model, what do you mean? - Do you mean Linden's buisness model, or the business model for residents? [16:12] mOOn Jaecies: too many variatons to use synergy mnost efficiently [16:12] AJ Brooks: i think both, Propspero - if they don't adapt - adapt or die [16:12] Cilian McCullough: I mean the fiscal modsel based on selling "land" and bandwith [16:12] Prospero Frobozz: Linden has stated that open sourcing the server is in the plans for the future, and they are active members of the AWG (which OpenSim developers also participate in) that are developing the protocols for interoperable virtual worlds. [16:12] AJ Brooks: and I think they are - adapting - hence a new CEO, other changes, etc.. [16:12] Philled Graves: business model based up on notions of value of virutal land, conversiton proceeds from L$, and membership [16:12] Topher Zwiers: I think LL is adapting their business model... what happens to open source projects like PW if/when LL open sources the server application? [16:12] AJ Brooks: yeah - what Philled said :-) [16:12] Cilian McCullough: yet here we are discussing other closed applications [16:12] Prospero Frobozz: Well, at some level, land = server capacity, which is a *real* resource.... [16:13] Spang Nastula: pardon ignorance, but with opensim could I for example host a VR training environment over a LAN? [16:13] Prospero Frobozz: Spang, sure. [16:13] AJ Brooks: absolutely - and control all apsects of it [16:13] Philled Graves: yes you could Sprang [16:13] Kayako Mayako: I may have missed this positive (sic -- I know we are on negatives) but Open Grid has the X viewer that allows building with prims sized up to 100 m. (versus the current 10 m in SL). More prim efficient. [16:13] Spang Nastula: cool [16:13] AJ Brooks: but what about negatives - I haven't heard the one I'm thinking of just yet [16:13] Prospero Frobozz: It's not as mature yet. - It's not clear that OpenSim currently has an architecture that could scale to the number of peopel who are all in "one world" the way SL does right now. [16:13] Philled Graves: in an open source model you have an opportunity becasue the standards and tools are codified and available to buidl and adapt to suite - this is a positive and a negative [16:13] Topher Zwiers: it takes time for the development community to mature - to support needed cusomtizations for those without the skill to program [16:14] Cilian McCullough: no real community - the real resource her is the community [16:14] CDB Barkley: its gonna take a lot of programming prowess [16:14] AJ Brooks: and yo uahve to maintaint the hardware and system yourself - you need your own tech people [16:14] CDB Barkley: maybe [16:14] Philled Graves: but the negatives are often balanced out against peer presure to produce quality product/code [16:14] AJ Brooks: right now, none of us have to think about bandwidth and servers - except when they are not avaialbel to us [16:14] Philled Graves: oh i have - i'm stuck on the notion that i could host a VW on my laptop [16:14] Prospero Frobozz: I suspect that in the future there will be people selling space on OpenSim servers just as you can get Linux web hosting providers now. [16:14] Greyce Congrejo: or borked [16:14] AJ Brooks: agreed, propsero - but this is just the same as SL anyway - and SL has teh community -that is for sure [16:15] Prospero Frobozz: Yes [16:15] Philled Graves: walk into a lab and boom - which is also good and bad [16:15] Gwenette Writer: thta is why server "space" will always "sell" as land. . . most folsk will not support their own server. . . academia yes; general population no [16:15] Spang Nastula: yeah Philled, excited about that too [16:15] AJ Brooks: I hope to be preseting on communit at SLCC community [16:15] Kayako Mayako: SL allows newcomers to stand on the "shoulders" of the designers that have been in SL for a while. For a small amount of $L great buildings can be purchased, teaching tools are available for free, etc. My understanding of the Open Grid and other open systems is that not only are the resources there, if one builds/makes resources, there is no guarantee they won't be lost. [16:15] AJ Brooks: well said kayako [16:15] Gwenette Writer: lost? [16:16] Philled Graves: i also have fears of that same scenerio with a earswhile student and boom there goes bandwidth for the lan segment [16:16] AJ Brooks: one thing that bothers me about SL is that "what happens in SL stays in SL" [16:16] CDB Barkley: Its *different* folks, - content [16:16] Prospero Frobozz: AJ : what do you mean by that? [16:16] Kayako Mayako: Open grid says your inventory cannot be protected or guaranteed. [16:16] Irix Ladybird: in what sense AJ? [16:16] Topher Zwiers: AJ - that won't be true once the server application is open sourced. - is it possible to access the main grid or to teleport here (for example) from an Open Sim? or are the two grids entirely separate? [16:16] AJ Brooks: I'll believe it when I see it - I'm not doubting it will happen - eventually [16:17] AJ Brooks: but if LL goes bye bye today - I"m pretty screwed out of hundreds of hours of work [16:17] CDB Barkley: So you've never lost something from SL inventory? [16:17] Philled Graves: there is also the potential for a break down in teh comidtization (sp) of goods and services in an open grid [16:17] Gwenette Writer: can you backup your tory as with the new tool sold for sl tory backup to harddrive? [16:17] Prospero Frobozz: Topher : no, they are completely separate right now. - You can't teleport from SL to anything other than something on the main SL grid. [16:17] Topher Zwiers: AJ - same would be true if Google evaporated too though.. gmail? - of coruse I guess I could back that up in some form... [16:17] Philled Graves: the capacity to backup to a local drive would be killer [16:17] Zotarah Shepherd: Inventory in SL is NOT protected. We can loose things from it. I have and I know others who have as well. [16:17] AJ Brooks: well - SL did test that with open grid three weeks ago - from a beta grid - but it is not publically avaialbe [16:17] CDB Barkley: yes [16:17] Philled Graves: itsbeen a topic for new features for SL for some time [16:18] Prospero Frobozz: Yeah, but very, very little SL inventory is lost, compared to the overal amount of inventory there is... and LL is trying to fix what problems there are. - Re: backing up inventory to local drive, a neat idea, but some people get very bothered by it... since if you back up a no-coipy or a no-transfer object, you can get around copy protections. [16:18] AJ Brooks: it was proof of concept - and it worked [16:18] Gwenette Writer: there is a backup tool for sl inventory sold on slexchangge - not used it tho - yes that's it [16:18] CDB Barkley: anyone try http://www.secondinventory.com/ - ?? [16:19] AJ Brooks: i've heard mxed things about it when it first came out - has it improved? - in fact, I heard some really negative things - but that was a while back [16:19] Gwenette Writer: 29 euros klind of dear [16:20] Prospero Frobozz loves this table... he's on completely the opposite side now from where he first sat down. [16:20] AJ Brooks: As we wind down here - we hav about 10 minutes left - time flies when you're having fun. I want to remind everone we meet here each week on Tuesday form 3:30pm to 4:30pm SLT [16:20] CDB Barkley: I cant reach my beer - We'll have more stuff soon from NMC at http://virtualworlds.nmc.org/ [16:20] Charlie Crabe: :) [16:20] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: niehter can i [16:20] AJ Brooks: also -please go to the awards event after this - support these great projects - i'll give the URL before we break up [16:21] Prospero Frobozz: (from when to when) - What times are the awards event? [16:21] AJ Brooks: this table comes in the fully paid Mystitool - if anyone wants the table, IM me and I'll try to find the TP - its on the island of Avendale - the awards event is going on now - the winners shoudl be announced soon - and a conversation and discussion will go on afterward [16:22] Jennette Forager: Thanks CDB [16:22] CDB Barkley: asj and ye shall get veer, thanks [16:22] Topher Zwiers: awards event? - where? [16:22] Greyce Congrejo: Thanks so much [16:22] CDB Barkley: beer i mean [16:22] AJ Brooks: I"ll give the SL before we break off for today [16:22] Prospero Frobozz: OK. I just wanted briefly to pimp the science education, research, and outreach panel at SL5B, which is in 1/2 hour :) (done) [16:22] AJ Brooks: ty :-) NMC rocks! and they are soon gong to be announcing the winners of their NMC prizes - no? [16:22] Jennette Forager: Good work Prospero [16:22] Kayako Mayako: To CDB, thank you for the insights. Also, FYI, my NMC quiz apple is one of my most used and appreciated teaching tools -- thank you & NMC! [16:22] Zotarah Shepherd: MystiTool is on Mystical Cookie Designs on Blumfield 26,147, 296 - Thanks CDB Good to see you. [16:23] Prospero Frobozz: If I can veer the topic slightly... this is my first tim ehere. Has anybody here taught a class *entirely* in SL? That is, not as an add-on to a regular class, but fully within SL. [16:23] SpelNJLT Thibedeau: Thanks CDB! [16:23] CDB Barkley: Thanks Kayako, that is very cool to hear [16:23] Cilian McCullough: Thanks everyone for a rousing session! [16:23] mOOn Jaecies: slurl Prospero? [16:23] Robin Mochi: thanks! [16:23] Gwenette Writer: so see you all in Wionderland?:)) [16:23] AJ Brooks: for those who want to make the awards - here is the info I got from In Kenzo [16:23] Irix Ladybird: that's my project, prospero [16:23] AJ Brooks: In Kenzo: Hey friends! This is a great day in Second Life...in an hour we're gathering on International Island and I get to help give away a million lindens to amazing projects! You can read more at http://networkculture.usc.edu or visit us from 4-5PM PST today at http://slurl.com/secondlife/International%20Island/140/50/30/ [16:23] Prospero Frobozz: mOOn : http://slurl.com/secondlife/SL5B%20Linked/182/190/25 - Irix : I'd love to talk to you about it at some point! I'm fantasizing about teaching a Relativity class in-world.... [16:24] Gwenette Writer: what time is final award announcement? CYA there:) [16:24] AJ Brooks: mOOn - can you hang out for a few after the meeting? - the announcements shoudl be gong on right now [16:24] Jennette Forager: Thanks AJ! [16:24] Zotarah Shepherd: Last summer we had a contest for immersive builds and I never heard the results. [16:24] SpelNJLT Thibedeau: Prospero I probably need to chat with you - I'm doing emag and a lasers and photonics course [16:24] mOOn Jaecies: thx [16:24] Irix Ladybird: let's keep in touch prospero [16:25] AJ Brooks: anyone else have an announcement they'd like to make - July 12th Griefing Issues Workshop at Elven Institute. [16:26] AJ Brooks: the notecard giver is at the entrance to this amphitheater lol [16:26] Prospero Frobozz: Zotarah : is that a how-to-grief class? :) [16:26] SpelNJLT Thibedeau: lol [16:26] Zotarah Shepherd: Hahaha [16:26] AJ Brooks: my mom will tell yo - I"m an expert at giving grief [16:26] CDB Barkley: Catch the performance of The Wall on NMC Campus West every Friday and Sunday 2pm http://sl.nmc.org/2008/06/24/the-wall/ [16:26] Prospero Frobozz has an alt who is the #1 championship griefer of all time - AJ :) Well, this guy uses a tool called the "rolling restart", and has caused more regions to go down in the last couple of months than everybody else put together :) [16:26] CDB Barkley: pretty amazing [16:27] Zotarah Shepherd: Oh yes and we are doing demos too. Wanna be caged or orbited *evil grins* [16:27] AJ Brooks: is that something to brag about ,propsero? ;-) - LOL – propsero - If that is the criteria, LL would be the best all time griefers [16:27] AJ Brooks: here is In Zenzo note again for those who missed it - In Kenzo: Hey friends! This is a great day in Second Life...in an hour we're gathering on International Island and I get to help give away a million lindens to amazing projects! You can read more at http://networkculture.usc.edu or visit us from 4-5PM PST today at http://slurl.com/secondlife/International%20Island/140/50/30/ [16:27] Zotarah Shepherd: Why? [16:28] Prospero Frobozz: Server updates.... Thanks CDB! [16:28] CDB Barkley: Thankas AJ and all, I have some cats to go chase [16:28] AJ Brooks: TYSVM CDB - I apprecaite your coming, especially on such short notice - lets have a round of applause for Alan [16:28] Blythe Quandry: No, but there are several things I need to research that I have seen here. [16:28] Charlie Crabe: Thank you [16:28] CHSSSouth Land Iniative: Notecard giver at Montclair State CHSSSouth has just been used by Kathryne Strauss! [16:28] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: clap [16:28] Cilian McCullough: Thanks! [16:28] Claire Nostram: clap [16:28] Zotarah Shepherd: I wish restarts could be on a certain day so we could schedule events and classes better [16:29] JeanClaude Vollmar: Yes, thanks! [16:29] mOOn Jaecies: byee....thanks AJ n CDB! [16:29] Penelope Drucker: ty [16:29] Prospero Frobozz: Zotarah : Yeah, I know. Right now, the're mostly on Wed. and Thu. mornings. [16:29] AJ Brooks: moon don't leave yet - remember - please jon the SL EDUCATION ROUNDTABLE GROUP or IM me for an invite [16:29] Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks AJ [16:29] Cathrin Laville: thanks [16:29] Claire Nostram: ty [16:29] Irix Ladybird: that's a big problem, zotarah [16:29] Prospero Frobozz: Maybe slopping into Friday morning. [16:29] Kaizer Sommer: thanks [16:29] Carrilin Heliosense: thanks all, this is so new to me... I learned a lot tonight. answered a few questions i'm not sure if I could have even articulated [16:29] Blythe Quandry: Thanks very interesting for a newbie. [16:29] Charlie Crabe: Sorry for my previous dancing :) [16:29] Zotarah Shepherd: Prospero I hope the Shakespere theater is still on. [16:30] Prospero Frobozz: Zotarah : yes! Twelfth Night performances, act 3 this weekend. - http://slshakespeare.com [16:30] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: I liked it, but it was damned distracting, Charlie [16:30] Prospero Frobozz: [16:30] Irix Ladybird: interesting, prospero! - i was thinking of organisinig something similar [16:30] Zotarah Shepherd: I will be sure to see it Thanks *smiles* - I am still maxxed onu in groups. I need to make another AV just to join more groups. [16:30] Prospero Frobozz: Irix : SLSC would love to have you involved. - IM Ina Centaur or Enniv Zarf. [16:31] AJ Brooks: yes - 25 is a problem - for my alt - who owns an art gallery - I use Mailman - insted of groups - its a great tool [16:32] Zotarah Shepherd: There was a petition to have 50. I don't know what happened to that. [16:32] Spang Nastula: g'night, thanks all [16:32] Prospero Frobozz: Part of the problem is that increasing the group limit will also add load to the central servers... the 25 limit isn't completely arbitrary. [16:32] AJ Brooks: [shameless self promotion begins] Check out the Gallery Beleza. Avendale is our main location, we also have on Refugio and Vancouver [16:32] Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks Prospero [16:32] AJ Brooks: [end shamless self promotion] - its dumb - they don't have to check each group when they check the database - but that the way it was coded [16:33] RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: >>sigh...<< AJ, I can't find the url to the awards in all of this chat. Would you please repost? [16:33] AJ Brooks: but they COULD fix that - In Kenzo: Hey friends! This is a great day in Second Life...in an hour we're gathering on International Island and I get to help give away a million lindens to amazing projects! You can read more at http://networkculture.usc.edu or visit us from 4-5PM PST today at http://slurl.com/secondlife/International%20Island/140/50/30/ [16:33] Claire Nostram: good night thanks aj for another interesting meeting [16:33] AJ Brooks: g'nite Claire - Later Z - great to see you [16:33] Zotarah Shepherd: I wish there was another way. - Ok ok AJ time to go *grins* [16:34] Kaizer Sommer: good night everybody [16:34] JeanClaude Vollmar: Yup, thanks. We'll see you all later! [16:34] SpelNJLT Thibedeau: Great discussion! goodnight! [16:34] Irix Ladybird: good night! [16:34] AJ Brooks: Hoep to see you all again next week - same bat time - same bat channetl [16:34] Zotarah Shepherd: Great discussion yes. [16:34] JeanClaude Vollmar: Very interesting concept tonight. [16:34] Carrilin Heliosense: see you next week. good night [16:34] Kayako Mayako: Very interesting discussion. Thank you AJ, et al. [16:34] Prospero Frobozz: g'night all! [16:34] AJ Brooks: I"m trying to get caught up on the tanscripts – transciprts - existing ones are located outside this amphitheater to the right [16:34] Zotarah Shepherd: There were 40 here today. hehe [16:35] AJ Brooks: they - by the big map fo the island - 40 huh - thats a record I think - I'll hve to make sure the sim limit is turned up [16:35] Zotarah Shepherd: Yay! [16:36] AJ Brooks: yes - this is a good problem to have - thanks everyone for coming - hope to see you next week [16:36] Charlie Crabe: bye and thank you [16:40] AJ Brooks: I'm gong to be AFK [16:47] mOOn Jaecies: sorry AJ, I locked up and had a hard time getting back on. i'll wait here to c if you come back