080602

Second Life Education Roundtable June 2, 2008 Bridging

[14:30] You: hi [14:32] Lorelei Junot: Affrontimariana this is AJ Brooks he sets up these educator meetings AJ, this is Affronitmariana [14:32] affrontimariana Arado: hi say me affro [14:32] You: hello the landmark for the meeting is in this sign feel free to join us [14:33] Ivy Innis: hi [14:33] You: hi everyone come on down [14:34] Bungy Bingyi: Hello AJ. [14:34] You: hi everyone click on the empty seat and have a seat, another chair will appear please - everyone join us at the table come on down folks :-) [14:35] You: hi everyone [14:35] Penelope Drucker: hello [14:35] Morgen Bookmite: Hello [14:36] You: those sitting in the seas, please do come down and join us - we'll go ahead and get started [14:36] Mercury Barnes: Round and round we go, where we'll stop, noone knows. [14:36] You: Let me start of by welcoming you to our new island CHSSSouth [14:36] JeanClaude Vollmar claps [14:36] Penelope Drucker: thank you [14:36] JeanClaude Vollmar: Good news [14:37] You: this is an amphitheater that was provided by Cleaver Zebra I've done some customization I recommend what they are doing and the efforts they ahve made i'm not sure if this is going to stay like this - but I think it will at this point so - why don't we start off as we normally do lets introduce ourselves, name, what you do, etc.. everyoen can type all at once we'll all catch up in history [14:38] CharlesMcGrew Weston: charles mcgrew rutgers programmer computer science department [14:38] Raimund Maurer: I am chair of the Foreign Language departmten at UNCW [14:38] mOOn Jaecies: René Sadae from U of Hawai'i system nursing and health sciences [14:38] JeanClaude Vollmar: I'm JC (Jeff Le Blanc) and work at UNOH as their VP for IT. [14:38] Bungy Bingyi: I am David Smith - Director of Technology for a public charter high school in Oakland CA [14:38] You: I'm AJ Brooks, AJ Kelton in real life - I am the Director of Emerging Instructional Technology [14:38] Paribus Habilis: Paribus Habilis (RL: Mike) at Childrens Hospital in Los Angeles, Info. Services Training Dept. [14:38] Penelope Drucker: I am an 8th grade educator of Social studies and Language arts - I am here because thie discussion today is about strudent transition [14:38] You: for the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University [14:38] Ivy Innis: ivy innis - ed prof at bard, science consultant global kids [14:38] Morgen Bookmite: My name is Morgen Bookmite, and I'm an adjunct English professor (Debra Norris-Rich in RL). I also work as a medical writer. [14:38] affrontimariana Arado: im a technology teacher from argentina [14:38] Topher Zwiers is Director Emerging Technology & Training for 2 year institution in Houston, TX [14:38] Kay Tairov: I'm with the American Library Association in Member Development. I'm here lurking. [14:39] Ariadne Yiyuan: I am English, Greek, and Latin at LCCC. Right now I am the only person developing courses in SL from our school. [14:39] Movies1963 Beck: Todd MacIsaac, live educational interactive TV broadcast for grades 1-20 [14:39] Mercury Barnes: Now of the Univ. of Illinois, soon be of UW-Milwaukee, support, sorta...:) [14:39] You: is that everyone? ok - if you could let us know how you found out abotu today's meeting - if a gropu, which grou, if a list, which list, if events, which listing [14:39] Brenda Yalin: not developing courses but an instructiona design area [14:39] Ariadne Yiyuan: SLED [14:39] Penelope Drucker: email notice [14:40] Mercury Barnes: Educause VW's (I think) [14:40] Brenda Yalin: email [14:40] Morgen Bookmite: EDUCAUSE [14:40] Raimund Maurer: SLED [14:40] mOOn Jaecies: SLED events blog [14:40] Aleph Blessed: SLED [14:40] CharlesMcGrew Weston: sled [14:40] Paribus Habilis: AJ's twitters and SLED posts, of course. ;-) [14:40] Ivy Innis: sled [14:40] Movies1963 Beck: EDUCAUSE [14:40] JeanClaude Vollmar: VW Educators and the CIO group [14:40] affrontimariana Arado: a friend [14:40] Kavon Zenovka: Sorry - answering thr pnone at the same time - Kae From Frot Range instructional designer/ student succes coordinator for online learning [14:40] You: very exciting a nice group - and I didn't need to do any group IMs before the meeting :-) [14:40] Bungy Bingyi: educause and academic CIO lists [14:41] You: before we get started on our topic for today, Bridging I'd like to ask two questions first off - I'm thiking of moving our meeting to this location [14:41] affrontimariana Arado: ok [14:41] You: please say YES if you think that is a good idea or NO if you think we shoudl still meet in the original amphitheater area [14:41] Raimund Maurer: sounds good to me [14:41] Bungy Bingyi: works for me [14:41] affrontimariana Arado: yes [14:41] Ivy Innis: yes [14:41] Ariadne Yiyuan: ok [14:41] Penelope Drucker: sure, why not? [14:41] Mercury Barnes: yes [14:41] mOOn Jaecies: YES [14:41] Morgen Bookmite: yes [14:41] Paribus Habilis: yes [14:41] JeanClaude Vollmar: yes [14:41] Bungy Bingyi: yes [14:41] Topher Zwiers: yes. [14:41] You: wow - overwhelming support excellent :-) [14:42] Paribus Habilis: well, the old place smelled like cheese [14:42] You: now - apparently there are some conflicts of this time with other events that prohibits some folks from coming [14:42] JeanClaude Vollmar laughs [14:42] You: PLease say YES if you could come to this meeting if it were at 3:30pm SLT and NO if you could only come if it stays at 2:30SLT [14:42] affrontimariana Arado: its my first time here... [14:42] ManqoQhapaqInca Qunhua is Online [14:42] Bungy Bingyi: Yeah I wasn't going to mention it but the other one was a bit dusty too. [14:42] Mercury Barnes: YES [14:43] CharlesMcGrew Weston: yes [14:43] Paribus Habilis: yes [14:43] Topher Zwiers: no. [14:43] Morgen Bookmite: yes [14:43] Raimund Maurer: yes [14:43] Ivy Innis: yes [14:43] Bungy Bingyi: yes [14:43] JeanClaude Vollmar: yes [14:43] mOOn Jaecies: YES [14:43] Ariadne Yiyuan: yes [14:43] Penelope Drucker: okay by mew me [14:43] Movies1963 Beck: yes [14:43] Topher Zwiers: well.. maybe... ;-) (since everyone else said yes) [14:43] Aleph Blessed: yes [14:43] You: great - ok - ty all for your help wit that [14:43] Brenda Yalin: no [14:43] You: anyone else? [14:43] Aleph Blessed: I Crashed and can't walk now lol [14:43] You: sim crossing have been a problem those in the seats, please come down and join us at the table [14:44] Raimund Maurer: I have to leave in a minute. Sorry [14:44] You: there will alwasy be one more seat than person ok - hope you'll come back) so - oru topic today Bridging I'll explain a bit and then open the floor for discussion it has been a problem that is two folks first off, when you have a high school senior who is turing 18, they get tossed from the teen grid and if you ahve a college freshman who is 17 - they can't join their colleagues on the main grid for class likewise, it is a hard transition for them sometimes to go from TG to MG so how do we deal with that, what are you thoughts on it, where do we advance the conversation from here, etc.... [14:46] Bungy Bingyi: Transitional grids which are available for select avatars? [14:46] Ariadne Yiyuan: Could you explain what the teen grid is and how it is different from the matuer grid? [14:46] You: ah - good question Teen Second LIfe is a grid that is open only to those 13-17 [14:46] mOOn Jaecies: what do you mean by "hard transition"? [14:46] CharlesMcGrew Weston: mentors to allow youngsters in with them (and only with them) [14:46] You: some students are restricted to their school islands some students can go all over adults must go through an FBI check [14:46] Brenda Yalin: maybe they should go through an orientation that lets them know what to expect [14:47] You: and are restircted to one region did that help? [14:47] mOOn Jaecies: yes [14:47] You: ok - so - anyone have any experience with the Teen Grid [14:47] Brenda Yalin: saw a demo yesterday [14:48] mOOn Jaecies: no [14:48] Ivy Innis: I have an avatar on it now [14:48] Brenda Yalin: was used nicely by globalkids [14:48] You: yes - anyone want to talk about what global kids is doing? [14:48] CharlesMcGrew Weston: nope. 30-odd years not a teen :-) [14:48] Brenda Yalin: they are doing alot [14:48] Ivy Innis: they do a number of things [14:48] Topher Zwiers: any truth to the assertion I've heard in other discussions that Linden will be "closing the Teen Grid"? [14:48] Ivy Innis: I'm working on science in second life [14:48] You: WHAT??????? closing the teen grid????? [14:49] Brenda Yalin: haven't heard that not from the presentation yesterday [14:49] Ivy Innis: have definitely not heard that [14:49] Brenda Yalin: globalkids are using it actively and very productively [14:49] Topher Zwiers: was a question - not reiterating a truth... have heard at least two educators, in meetings similar to this one, sugest that. [14:49] mOOn Jaecies: can you point us to an intro to teengrid that we can visit after this session? [14:50] You: well - that is not so easay you can look up holymeatballs.org [14:50] Ivy Innis: try holymeatballs.org for machinima [14:50] You: and also look up ramapo islands [14:50] mOOn Jaecies: thanks [14:50] You: there are doing some great stuff there is also eye4you alliance well - if nobody here has any experience with the teen grid, or any thoughts on it - we could move on to an open forum if you prefer [14:51] Antilles Mighty: hello educators :o) [14:51] You: the meeting is supposed to be for all - we can do a special bridging meeting some other time [14:51] Penelope Drucker: antilles here is registered there [14:51] affrontimariana Arado: anybody speak spanish? [14:51] Antilles Mighty: ... you mean no one has been in the teen grid? [14:51] Brenda Yalin: http://www.globalkids.org/?id=30 [14:51] You: I have been on the ramapo island, but only just to visit and have not done so much yet [14:51] Brenda Yalin: This link just gives an overview of what globalkids is doing in teen grid [14:51] You: I was hoping someone here might be able to inform the conversation [14:51] mOOn Jaecies: thank you [14:51] Penelope Drucker: waht about this rumnor that the teen grid may close ? [14:52] You: I'm actually surprised a few of the TG advocates are not here [14:52] Ivy Innis: I am working with global kids on science - a classroom project [14:52] You: please keep talking - phone - brb [14:52] Ivy Innis: we create environments for the kids to explore around sustainability [14:52] Brenda Yalin: Have not been in teen grid because I have not reason to be there. [14:52] Ivy Innis: the kids are taking time to adjust to working in the environment [14:52] CharlesMcGrew Weston: there was some speculation in the 'second life herald' that linden might close it. but it looks to be pretty uninformed speculation [14:52] mOOn Jaecies: cool, can we visit it? [14:53] Penelope Drucker: how do you mean you create the environments? do your students build? [14:53] Brenda Yalin: My understanding is that you can't just log on as an adult [14:53] Antilles Mighty: http://secondlife.wikia.com/index.php/Teen_SL [14:53] CharlesMcGrew Weston: http://foo.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/05/linden_lab_all_.html [14:53] Ivy Innis: but, they love itcheck holymeatballs.or or cathu Arreguin's posting in utube [14:53] Penelope Drucker: no you can't - you have to have clearacne [14:53] mOOn Jaecies: Ivy, can we visit ur project? [14:53] Ivy Innis: not on the teen grid the machinimas are the way we communicate about it [14:54] Brenda Yalin: Maybe there should be an orientation in teen grid that gets them ready for the adult grid [14:54] Aleph Blessed: We are using open source for our own Island just because of this bridging problem. I am at a community college and the bridging is a major impediment to our use of SL. [14:54] Penelope Drucker: Ivy - please explain more about what your students are doing,,,are they building here on SL or in teen sl? [14:54] mOOn Jaecies: how can educators share what they do on teen grid [14:54] Ivy Innis: most of the building is done, they then explore [14:54] Penelope Drucker: who builds? [14:54] affrontimariana Arado: ivy do you use moodle and sl? [14:55] Ivy Innis: Cathy Arreguin is our primary builder [14:55] Brenda Yalin: the demo i saw showed that the globalkids in the project built a lot of their owne surroundings [14:55] Antilles Mighty: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Second_Life [14:55] Ivy Innis: not yet I'd love to, but getting the kids oriented to teen SL has taken some time (re:moodle) [14:56] You: sorry - I'm back the phone was followed by visitors [14:56] Ivy Innis: it is a resource for the classtroo, not a class on the grid [14:56] You: who I promtpy threw out LOL [14:56] Antilles Mighty: ... the brevity alone of that Wikipedia article on the Teen Grid tells you how tight it is in terms of access... the kids don't want others to know in general and adults have very restricted access. [14:56] Aleph Blessed: We are using open source for our own Island just because of this bridging problem. I am at a community college and the bridging is a major impediment to our use of SL. [14:56] Ivy Innis: I can't leave the global kis island [14:57] You: the teen grid is very restrictive [14:57] Topher Zwiers: Aleph - is there any connectivity between OpenSim (or the opensource sim you're using) and the main grid? [14:57] Morgen Bookmite: This URL contains lots of info and links about educators wishing to work with teens in SL: https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educatorsandteens [14:57] Ivy Innis: it's extremely difficult to get objects from the main grid to the teen grid [14:57] Aleph Blessed: Yes, but ofcourse the 17 yo can not go there [14:57] Topher Zwiers: Ivy - I've had that conversation with NMC Virtual Worlds regarding a project we're planning on the main grid - it can be done, but it's not easy. [14:58] Aleph Blessed: It therfore restricts the use of SL in all classes [14:58] You: usually you need a mule to bring the items from TMG to TG [14:58] Antilles Mighty: I think companies ought to offer siginifcant awards to kids to accomplish educational projects in SL Teen with students around the world... and allow them to invite adults they feel could help them achieve those awards [14:58] Ivy Innis: yup -= Cathy got permission, but that was it... [14:58] You: so one problem they have is if a student in HS turns 18 they get tossed from teh teen grid which means they can't finish the work with their peers on the other side of that coin if a college freshman is only 17 and a frehsman class is using SL the student cannot participate legally since creating an AV with a wrong birthdate volates the ToS [15:00] JeanClaude Vollmar: And PSEO students might even be younger. [15:00] Antilles Mighty: rediculous that age it the dividing barrier in an a community... [15:00] mOOn Jaecies: when they register, can there not be an overlap period, according to the student's academic level? [15:00] Aleph Blessed: And any teacher who does not control that can be found personally liable is our concern [15:00] You: I have experienced the latter problem [15:00] Bungy Bingyi: Seems like we need something like PG-13 in the SL [15:00] You: its cut and dry as far as LL is concered [15:00] Paribus Habilis: si are we suggesting that there are other alternatives to this bridging issue than a change in SL policy, or finding another grid such as OpenSim (which is what Aleph is doing)?? [15:00] You: 18 and over only on this grid - period - under 18 on the TG - period [15:00] mOOn Jaecies: cannot they not document, say when they graduate, so that they have an extended period, or the reverse in the 17 yo collegiate student? [15:00] Topher Zwiers: Aleph, AJ - I just don't see how a College faculty member can be held accountable for a 17yo student that makes themself one year older when creating a main grid account. [15:01] Antilles Mighty: well LL isn't the smartest agency in the world for what is good for society or children [15:01] mOOn Jaecies: no appeals to LL? [15:01] You: so far - LL has not moved on this citing legal restrictions [15:01] Penelope Drucker: what I would like to see is for there to be one world that all have access to but restrict adult themed stuff just as it is in the RL [15:01] Aleph Blessed: Recent court decisions are very troubling in this regard [15:01] Antilles Mighty: ... cause they created SL gives them that itle [15:01] You: a student who turnes 18 can come back to the teen grid if they go through the FBI check which costs money [15:02] Mercury Barnes: Why define school SMS as "legally the province of the school." Then allow the Teen Grid to gate to the School SIM, Adult Grid too, but since the meeting place is presumably controlled, it will be as "safe as the School makes it." [15:02] Bungy Bingyi: I would think that a faculty member could 'sponsor' a certain number of student avatars which would be allocated/managed by the faculty member and would only be allowed to get to the designated class areas. [15:02] You: the one world concept is along the lines of opensim, etc... [15:02] Mercury Barnes: ((Why not)) [15:02] You: but in college, I wouldn't want to restict my students to just this island [15:02] Aleph Blessed: The problem is their exposure not their actions while in SL [15:02] You: that seems like awaste [15:02] Paribus Habilis: i thought the new age verification functionality in the new sim architecture (and in the release clients) was intended to provide the opportunity to open the main grid to under 18 yos... perhaps where soem of the "closing TG" talk comes from. [15:02] You: i'd not heard that i'm sure LL would like this problem to be resolved, but I'm guessing, legally [15:03] Aleph Blessed: It is a waste AJ [15:03] Antilles Mighty: ... It would be a very healthy history lesson why to create an entire world orvirtual "nation" in the way LL has controls is likely to lead to abuse that most would never accept... each of us as virtual citizens should consider those implications [15:03] You: they are not sure how to do it please explain antilles [15:04] Topher Zwiers: I have no confidence that any sort of age verification will actually work - it's only a mechanism to satisfy the legal team(s). If age verification were truly possible, we wouldn't have instances of HS students purchasing adult literature and drugs online. [15:04] Brenda Yalin: Thanks all. gotta run. Always enjoy it. [15:04] You: bye brenda [15:04] Paribus Habilis waves to brenda [15:04] Aleph Blessed: I had to ask a 16 YO to leave the other day [15:04] You: see you at a future meeting [15:04] Aleph Blessed: He joined SL and then admitted he was 16 [15:04] You: did you report him [15:05] Penelope Drucker: oh, I have several 14 year old students who are on SL it's easy [15:05] Aleph Blessed: No but banned him from our location [15:05] Penelope Drucker: apparently [15:05] Topher Zwiers: very easy. [15:05] You: they shoudl be reported – imho not to get back to the SLED conversation - that was different since she knew the person [15:05] Penelope Drucker: I don't know their avatar [15:05] Antilles Mighty: well... the Boston Tea Company or the West Boston Widget company didn't get to write the structure of the society in the United States to benefit their bottom line.... [15:05] You: but I still believe that if a student is stupid enough to admit to a stanger they are under 18 - they are not mature enough to be on the main grid [15:05] Aleph Blessed: Penelope, have they received written permission from parents? [15:06] Antilles Mighty: (sorry that my reference is not a global model) [15:06] CharlesMcGrew Weston: no kidding [15:06] Penelope Drucker: nah, are yo ukidding - but some parents know and some don't [15:06] You: written permission means nothing - they are not allowed - the ToS is VERY clear! [15:06] Aleph Blessed: But are you meeting them in SL [15:06] Penelope Drucker: it doesn't matter that they are not allowed - they do it anyway [15:06] You: understodd [15:07] Aleph Blessed: or they have just told you in RL [15:07] You: but if they admit it - they should be reported imo [15:07] Antilles Mighty: ... who in this room is not 18 yet? [15:07] Aleph Blessed: lol [15:07] You: how dumb is it to break a rule and then admit to everyoen you just did [15:07] mOOn Jaecies: oh, how i wish! [15:07] Morgen Bookmite: Wouldn't it solve the problem to duplicate a course on both grids? And not take teen students unless you have at least 2 of them so that they can interact with another student? [15:07] You: lol - oh yeah [15:07] Mercury Barnes: I'm not 18 (which I was...:) [15:07] CharlesMcGrew Weston: because it's cool to tell people you beat the system [15:07] Penelope Drucker: Many of them joined after I told them I had they were looking for me [15:07] You: well - then you shoudl pay the price [15:08] Aleph Blessed: He wanted to know where he could meet people his own age [15:08] Penelope Drucker: they were hoping to find me pole dancing I think lol [15:08] You: lol [15:08] Aleph Blessed: he said he was not aware of Teen SL [15:08] mOOn Jaecies: lol! [15:08] You: hi robin [15:08] Robin Mochi: hi, sorry so late [15:08] You: s'ok [15:08] Aleph Blessed: Yeah Penelope -- would be my concern as well lol [15:08] Antilles Mighty: I have three girls that have been a fake age so long on MySpace... they have trouble remembering their real age when "real" birthdays" come around [15:08] Topher Zwiers: Does it say in the ToS that I have an obligation to report an under 18 user that's on the main grid? [15:09] Ariadne Yiyuan: We have an open admissions system. No one is denied admission because of age. So do I now have to specifiy in my syllabus that you must meet age requirements in order to take a course that no one else has to meet in a similar course? [15:09] You: no, of course not [15:09] Penelope Drucker: for pete's sake - that is not a concern of mine - I don't pole dance here any more than I would in rL [15:09] You: but it is a moral obligation - for the good of our society [15:09] Penelope Drucker: hahaha [15:09] Antilles Mighty: uhummm [15:09] Morgen Bookmite: Of course not....however, classes are cancelled every day because they didn't "fill" [15:09] Aleph Blessed: One of the points is that as an institution we can not require SL activity [15:09] You: having keids in SL will create problems like that jerk from Illinois, the senator who wants to ban it [15:10] Antilles Mighty: create problems for the kids or adults [15:10] You: both [15:10] Aleph Blessed: We can not design a class around SL [15:10] You: there are adult activites that go on here not just educational - in fact, 90% of sl is social there ARE things kids shoud not be exposed to [15:10] Topher Zwiers: AJ - I don't think the obligation is so black and white. If I have a 17 yo in my college class, I don't agree that it's an obligation to report htem; they've begun assuming adult roles in RL; why is it an obligation to report their use of a system intended to disallow grade-school age learners? [15:11] Antilles Mighty: .. there are adult activities that go on 8 feet from most of our kids rooms [15:11] mOOn Jaecies: adult activities on on the internet but schools require going online now high schools middle school [15:11] You: but they block [15:11] mOOn Jaecies: and even in elementary....which i wasn't happy about [15:11] You: and sometimes they very aggressively block [15:11] Topher Zwiers: their use of it is between them and their ToS with LL. [15:11] You: and chris - those are the rules [15:11] mOOn Jaecies: they block at school, but not at home for homework [15:11] You: you don't like them -w ork to change them - but don't work around them if the student doesn't tell you [15:11] Aleph Blessed: Topher you need to look at the recent CA court case in which a teacher is held liable but not the institution [15:11] You: and you don't suggest it - whatever but if you know, I think its a moral obligation - just mho [15:12] Zotarah Shepherd: Hello [15:12] Antilles Mighty: ..I think we will look back historically on this time and realize that because we could not the rate of change around us... we failed to educate our kids for the world that they might take advange of. [15:12] You: Hey Z [15:12] Topher Zwiers: Aleph - which court case? in regards to College learners? [15:12] Antilles Mighty: *not handle* [15:12] Aleph Blessed: Not at a public institution Topher [15:12] Paribus Habilis waves hello to zotarah [15:13] Topher Zwiers: Aleph - a private institution... K-12 or Higher Ed? [15:13] Penelope Drucker: I agree Anti [15:13] You: i think teaching and allowing student to break rules send the wrong signal - if they do it anyway - that is on them, but we are role models - or should be [15:13] Zotarah Shepherd waves back to Paribus [15:13] Aleph Blessed: I will get the reference and get it too you, I do not have it here it is not specific to this but the severence is the concern [15:13] You: hey scuba [15:13] Penelope Drucker: the point is - we need to create a system where they aren't breaking the rules [15:13] Antilles Mighty: ... I mean for godness sakes Kay has a tail... and we are still worried that we are going to harbinger our kids from the ills of the internet [15:13] ScubaChris Wollongong: hey AJ [15:13] You: yes [15:13] Storm Parx: I think we need two different conversations here...k-12 and Higher ed, which functions with completely different rules [15:13] Antilles Mighty: ... sorry Kay... I actually like your tail [15:14] You: but todays conversation is not clear cut -t hat is why bridging is so difficult [15:14] Antilles Mighty: ... not as much as Penelope's hair, but it is nice [15:14] Aleph Blessed: Community College Topher [15:14] You: and that is where the legal 18 year old line sits [15:14] Penelope Drucker: you goof [15:14] Topher Zwiers: Aleph - would appreciate the reference. [15:14] mOOn Jaecies: let's take a poll, just for who's here today, HS or coll? [15:15] Mercury Barnes: Coll [15:15] Penelope Drucker: I still ask, why cannot there be one world where the adult stuff is restricted? [15:15] Topher Zwiers: Coll [15:15] You: ok - say HS for high schol and U for college [15:15] Morgen Bookmite: Again, I will ask....why wouldn't having two classes (mirror images) solve the bridging problem? [15:15] mOOn Jaecies: coll [15:15] You: U [15:15] Robin Mochi: university [15:15] Morgen Bookmite: Coll [15:15] JeanClaude Vollmar: U [15:15] Ivy Innis: K-12 [15:15] mOOn Jaecies: U [15:15] Morgen Bookmite: U [15:15] Ariadne Yiyuan: coll [15:15] Zotarah Shepherd: ummm both [15:15] Penelope Drucker: k-12 [15:15] Storm Parx: u [15:15] Antilles Mighty: ... this group ought to go to a dance together... meet at 11:00 pm one night and talk about what it means to be a digital citizen today.... while waltzing [15:15] Paribus Habilis: Col [15:15] You: Morgen - two classes would be a TON of work one class on one grid is a ton of work [15:15] Aleph Blessed: Community U [15:15] You: two would be unmanagable [15:15] Penelope Drucker: good idea Anti [15:16] Aleph Blessed: I like it Antilles Count me in [15:16] Morgen Bookmite: AJ....Is the problem that the basic building work can't be copied over? [15:16] Zotarah Shepherd: I am already doing classes on both grids and have been for over a year. [15:16] You: yes - for one having to be on two gridsa at once is another its just double work [15:16] CharlesMcGrew Weston: i think the thing somebody said earlier of anywhere-in-teen, only-one-place in adult is the way. [15:16] You: and most instuctors would probably say they don't get paid enough to start, let alone to do doble work [15:16] CharlesMcGrew Weston: permissions would be easy [15:16] You: they'd just not use SL instead [15:16] Zotarah Shepherd: Well if the content is the same it is not really hard. I am not getting paid at all. [15:17] Aleph Blessed: The material we prepare is not really as much of an issue in my mind [15:17] CharlesMcGrew Weston: just turn the keep-people-out restrictions around [15:17] You: Z - the SAME class - being offered to students - accommodating those who have bridged? [15:17] mOOn Jaecies: Zotarah, why do you do two. what's your personal reason for doing so? [15:17] Paribus Habilis: well many of our potential solutions within the MG would require cooperation/development form Linden to implement -- i such a dialog with Linden even happening? is* [15:18] Antilles Mighty: .... I hope that traditional will fail to try to transition the boxes that we haved called classrooms to this environment [15:18] You: i'm not sure if it is happening - but perhaps this can help it along [15:18] Zotarah Shepherd: My classes for teachers is about teaching life-skills to teens, so I also teach life-skills to teens on the teen grid. [15:18] You: so - two diffeent sets of students [15:18] Zotarah Shepherd: Eye4you island [15:19] Storm Parx: Zot- I'd love to see that in action [15:19] mOOn Jaecies: so you don't work with a student actually transitioning [15:19] You: the suggestion was to have two classes - the same - one on TG one on MG - to accommodate the studetns who have bridged [15:19] mOOn Jaecies: if you were running a senior class, and one by one the students turned 18, that might challenge running a duplicate class on the MG [15:19] Zotarah Shepherd: Yes and I had good role models in RL. One of my ece teachers in college also taught 1st grade in the day time. [15:19] CharlesMcGrew Weston: naw, like you said, too much work [15:19] You: Z -= you are also an exception - most teacers do not work for free - ti may seem like it - but they ahve to pay bills [15:20] Zotarah Shepherd: There are not many teens ready to "rezuate" but I work with them too. And we are working on a "bridging" class to get them ready for this grid. [15:20] Ivy Innis: I would like to take teens onfield trips in the MG - any possibilities there? [15:21] You: nope [15:21] JeanClaude Vollmar: And how much duplicative effort for just a couple students. Not to mention, they may not get the same social experience as the rest of their peers in the course [15:21] Antilles Mighty: Why not contact LL and ask them to help facilitate a session of round-table educational innovation sessions with students from the Teen Grid [15:21] Zotarah Shepherd: Well it is a part of my MA project. I would like to get grants or have a course that paid me. [15:21] You: i'm oping this rountable can be a start to that conversation [15:21] mOOn Jaecies: do you have "unwanted adults" showing up on the MG, that your 18yo would be exposed to? [15:21] You: I hope to provide them with the transcript [15:21] CharlesMcGrew Weston: perhaps some sort of 'passport' system? [15:21] Kay Tairov: is LL reseptive to such requests? [15:21] You: Moon - of course there are perverts who would go to gret lengthst to take advantage of a yougner person and there are people who lie about their age to get onto the TG [15:22] CharlesMcGrew Weston: there are 'unwanted aduclts' pretty much everywhere in the grid :-) [15:22] Zotarah Shepherd: The TG teens are really aware and know how to deal with unwanted advances or griefing. [15:22] Antilles Mighty: ... well why not put a virtual petition up in ISTE and have educators start to sign it.. demanding such meeting and interactions between educators and students [15:22] Topher Zwiers: there are "unwanted adults" - in RL and all over the "interwebs" too ;-) [15:22] Aleph Blessed: To me there are strengths to SL – constructivist and immersive teaching techniques. Providing instructivistic material on SL is not a unique SL strength. [15:23] You: well - before we demand, we might want to just try to talk to them :-) [15:23] mOOn Jaecies: i was wondering if he has experienced it in his bridging class on the MG [15:23] Zotarah Shepherd: It is a whole lot safer in SL than RL [15:23] ScubaChris Wollongong: You have to remember that LLs economic model is not based on education [15:23] You: 90% of SL is social [15:23] Antilles Mighty: Yes... I agree Al... I think LL is hip to the value of this sort of structured approach by educators [15:23] You: only 10% is educational [15:23] Paribus Habilis: While that may arguably be true, Z, I don't think Linden is willing to accommodate that position in thier policy. i htink they are doing everthing they can to show "good faith" in preventing an exposure to minors on the main grid [15:23] You: and they make less money on us [15:23] Aleph Blessed: If students can not venture out into the environment of SL there are many other options [15:23] Mercury Barnes: The mixing of kids in the adult grid for social conversation doesn't really work from the adult side (likely the same for the teen side). However, are there any court cases showing that lewd or lascivious conduct between AV's controlled by below and above 18 is illegal? [15:24] Antilles Mighty: ... I don't think it would take much convincing [15:24] Ivy Innis: i thought education was social :-) [15:24] Topher Zwiers: Paribus - and that's even more true about the erroneous accusations by the not-so-informed Senator a few weeks back... [15:24] You: education is social, but we also have a responsibliti to our children to protectct them [15:24] Kay Tairov: Congressman Kirk [15:24] ScubaChris Wollongong: Larry Johnson of the NMC has suggested that the "attractive approac" might be for Corporate Intranets [15:24] Paribus Habilis: particularly -- i see Linden's position as a hedge against just such Senators. [15:24] ScubaChris Wollongong: that would provide the functionaility we might need [15:24] You: explain pls [15:24] Ivy Innis: aj - agreed [15:25] Aleph Blessed: Paribus, you have a very good point [15:25] Topher Zwiers: Mercury - I doubt there are any cases specific to Av's, but physical world laws suggest that it is very illegal (lewd Avs in front of teens) thanks Kay... name was slipping me before... [15:25] Antilles Mighty: oh please... our attempts to "protect" have only created a whole internet culture that has not been educated by the wise guidance of educators and adults.... [15:25] Aleph Blessed: it is only trouble waiting to happen for Linden [15:25] Kay Tairov: yw [15:26] Mercury Barnes: Yes we do, but if School SIMs are a "controlled location," then the hard risk for the school is some adult learner conversing with, rezzing a sexbed, and enticing the youngster to click the pose ball. If this isn't actually illegal, then the school is safe (and the problem isn't likely to be big anyway -- edge incidents). [15:26] Topher Zwiers: Antilles - that was partially my point earlier - I doubt age verification on the main grid in SL will work any better than age verification on the internet. [15:26] You: as we wind down - I want to thanks folks for coming. I"ll be making an announcement sono about any time or location change. But the one thing is for sure, we WILl meet next Tuesday - just not sure where or when [15:26] Movies1963 Beck: this stuff is nothing new, this stuff's been talked about from the begining of the internet, when it was AOL chat rooms all the talk was keeping kids safe and bottom line is it's just lip service [15:26] Zotarah Shepherd: Everyone on the teen grid must be age verified and adults must be background checked. [15:26] You: adults get onto the teen grid all the time even that age verification sucks [15:27] Kay Tairov: without checks? AJ [15:27] You: teens - yes, without checkecs [15:27] Antilles Mighty: What are we trying to protect them from... positive alternatives? [15:27] Movies1963 Beck: you can only do your best, someone's always going to find a way to explot kids if they want to saddly [15:27] Mercury Barnes: Age verification doesn't work well. [15:27] Kay Tairov: @_@ [15:27] Zotarah Shepherd: 18 year olds are considered "adults" here. [15:27] mOOn Jaecies: FBI checks suck? [15:27] Topher Zwiers: Movies1963 - I agree... almost ALL of the objections to SL and the risk it imposes for minors echo, nearly 1:1, the concerns expressed about the internet... [15:27] Mercury Barnes: Take a bit -- just had one done on me. [15:27] You: FBI checks are fine [15:27] Penelope Drucker: I tend to believe that we need to educate our kids how to function here [15:27] You: but teens don't need them to get on [15:28] Aleph Blessed: May be it doesn't but that is not really the point unless you think you can change the porn exposure laws [15:28] Penelope Drucker: they will need those lessons desperately [15:28] mOOn Jaecies: so don't u have to have FBI check for TG? [15:28] Zotarah Shepherd: I know of a few teens who have been on the main grid before Lindens made age verification easier. [15:28] Zotarah Shepherd: Oh yes you do [15:28] You: porn and sex provide a lot more in income to LL than education [15:28] mOOn Jaecies: why then r u saying adults get on all the time? [15:28] Topher Zwiers: and they need those lessons before they turn 18 and boldly venture into SL [15:28] You: teens do NOT need FBI check to get onto the teen grid only adults do [15:28] Zotarah Shepherd: Right Topher [15:28] Zotarah Shepherd: Right AJ [15:29] Aleph Blessed: Topher hope we don't have to bail you out someday [15:29] You: lol [15:29] Aleph Blessed: :) [15:29] Topher Zwiers: LOL [15:29] Penelope Drucker: do we educate our kids in a bubble now? [15:29] Antilles Mighty: ... we can go on failing to lock down the internet to protect or we can actively educate and provide positive options and real connections with students/kids in the cyber world they live in... connections that will provide the guidance that is so void in their cyber worlds now. [15:29] Aleph Blessed: yes [15:29] You: folks - our time is up for this week. If you need to leave, go ahead - but you are welcoem to stay also [15:29] Zotarah Shepherd: But the teens need to verify that they are teens between 13 and 17 to get on the TG [15:29] Topher Zwiers: will probably need to be bailed out at some point --- guessing it will be some time after my daughters turn 13-14 or so... LOL [15:29] You: how do they verify? [15:29] Aleph Blessed: OK Antilles but why should Linden stick their neck out? [15:29] Kay Tairov: how do they verify, Z? [15:30] Antilles Mighty: ... Because we should demand it [15:30] You: they just fill in their age [15:30] Zotarah Shepherd: I think by cell phone or credit card accounts [15:30] You: no [15:30] Ivy Innis: i may be naive - why is LL responsible - why not the schools or the parents? [15:30] You: they just fill out a form [15:30] Aleph Blessed: We do not have the standing and never will [15:30] Antilles Mighty: ... right Ivy [15:30] Kay Tairov nods [15:30] Zotarah Shepherd: Some teens who had neither could contact LL for other forms of ID [15:30] You: because they are providing the service, so, ultimately, they are responsbile for it [15:30] Penelope Drucker: we do not have the standing? well, whose fault is that? [15:31] Aleph Blessed: Because Congress and the courts will come down on the most visible [15:31] Topher Zwiers: really enjoyed the conversation all... thanks! [15:31] Kay Tairov: arf. i have to go. :-( [15:31] You: bye chris [15:31] Kay Tairov: AJ, this discussion will be archived as usual? [15:31] You: :-( bye kay [15:31] Mercury Barnes: Thanks. [15:31] Zotarah Shepherd: Most of the adult owned islands on the TG are private - school run so teens cannot go off to other TG places. [15:31] You: yes - and hopefully it won't take me forever to get to the archives [15:31] Ivy Innis: interested in pursuing this - thank you! [15:31] Morgen Bookmite: Thanks....bye all! [15:31] Antilles Mighty: Fill a virtual meeting with 500 educators.... you will have all the power that any group in SL has ever had [15:31] Penelope Drucker: thanks AJ for another active chat! [15:31] Kay Tairov: The archive will remain at the old location? [15:32] Bungy Bingyi: Thank you all for a good chat. [15:32] You: yes - an slow start but a gret meeting in the end [15:32] Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks AJ. Sorry I was late. [15:32] CharlesMcGrew Weston: fill a meeting with 500 educators, and nothing will get done :-) [15:32] Zotarah Shepherd: hehehe [15:32] mOOn Jaecies: Zot, so the teens only enter the adult school site n leave the TG from there as well? [15:32] Antilles Mighty: Thanks AJ and sorry for the abrupt stance in thinking... I justhope we will challenge our thinking hahaha ... well their might be some good snacks *there [15:33] Zotarah Shepherd: My build will be moved soon, but only next to the other site. [15:33] Antilles Mighty: Kay... I like the hat too :o) [15:33] Zotarah Shepherd: There are no 18 year olds on the TG [15:33] You: Allowed - Z - no 18 year olds allowed I hope so too Antilles [15:34] Zotarah Shepherd: Some 18 year olds can apply to Lindens for background checks just as adults do. I know one who did that. He has an account here and there He wanted to finish work there. [15:35] mOOn Jaecies: i meant adult owned islands (schools?)...i'm wondering what you meant about teens not being able to go to other TG places [15:35] Zotarah Shepherd: But without a background check they cannot stay there after they turn 18 can own islands on the Teen grid Just like some sims here are private [15:36] Antilles Mighty: Well... what a good group of thinkers here... thanks for making me say what I feel passionate about. I look forward to more meetings of this group [15:37] Zotarah Shepherd: The members have a private sim account and cannot go to other parts of the grid [15:37] mOOn Jaecies: and they can then limit which students that come there, but also forcing them to leave out the TG door. Maybe i totally misunderstood that comment. ohhhhh, the adult cannot go to other TG sites [15:37] You: correct [15:37] Antilles Mighty: Take care everyone. I hope to meet some of you at NECC [15:37] mOOn Jaecies: i get it now, sorry [15:37] Zotarah Shepherd: Well for private sims only a teen or adult with that account can go there. [15:37] You: bye Antilles - see you soon I hope thanks for coming [15:37] Zotarah Shepherd: Eye4you where I work is a public sim Any teen can go there [15:38] You: Ramapo, where I have my TG av is closed [15:38] Zotarah Shepherd: But adults cannot leave [15:38] You: only Suffern Middle School students are allowed [15:38] Zotarah Shepherd: Yes [15:38] You: and that av can never come back to the main grid [15:38] Zotarah Shepherd: and most of the adult owned sims are like yours. My AV for eye4you will stay on the TG too. [15:40] mOOn Jaecies: thanks Zot, i'll check it out [15:40] JeanClaude Vollmar: I have to get going. Thanks as always for hosting us AJ. [15:40] Zotarah Shepherd: "Zoaan" only goes to the eye4you owned islands [15:40] You: in fact, if I look them up from the main grid, they don't exist anymore [15:40] JeanClaude Vollmar: See you all next week. [15:40] Antilles Mighty: Thanks again AJ [15:40] mOOn Jaecies: mahalo AJ. c u nx time! aloha all [15:40] You: JC - my pleasure -g ret to see you again mahalo for coming, moon [15:40] Zotarah Shepherd: http://eye4youalliance.youthtech.info/ You can apply to eye4you as a volunteer [15:41] Ariadne Yiyuan: Thanks for the stimulating ideas. See you next week. [15:41] Paribus Habilis waves to all: thanks for the great discussion -- lossa fun! [15:41] CharlesMcGrew Weston: AJ how much did this conference table thingie cost? [15:41] You: it comes as part of the mystitool the paid version of the mysti tool is $395L I think [15:42] Zotarah Shepherd: This is an event I hosted last Saturday and a teen posted : http://animoto.com/play/UHJ9ZZ6obeoZ6YBXBA1HVA?autostart=false [15:42] CharlesMcGrew Weston: really? thanks! I'll go check it out. [15:42] You: her store is on Avendale - let me see if I hav the LM [15:42] Zotarah Shepherd: Global kids got some great press recently. Did you see it on the SLED list? [15:43] You: try that [15:43] CharlesMcGrew Weston accepted your inventory offer. [15:43] You: the free version is by the door the paid version is in the middle [15:43] Zotarah Shepherd: We need good press for education in SL [15:43] You: BUT under teh free version is a notecard giver with a transcript of a training class mysti ran on using the tool it is a MUST [15:43] CharlesMcGrew Weston: thanks muchly! [15:44] You: yvw - it is my killer app - does SO many things radar [15:44] Zotarah Shepherd: I so like my Mystitool [15:44] You: defensive stuff rezzers like this table I have one for each of my avatars [15:44] Zotarah Shepherd: I use it a lot [15:44] You: including the TG one Scuba, I'll try to get you that trancrip tsooner rather than later [15:44] Zotarah Shepherd: I don't have one on theten grid. : ( and I really miss it there too.) Gotta run [15:45] You: bye Z - great to see you [15:45] Movies1963 Beck: the new place is great AJ [15:45] You: thansk Movies free from Clever Zebra [15:45] ScubaChris Wollongong: Thanks AJ\ [15:45] Movies1963 Beck: yes [15:45] You: i did modify it [15:45] Movies1963 Beck: have a great evening everyone [15:45] Zotarah Shepherd: So nice to have a new sim huh? [15:46] You: it is by Movies - gret to see you