SL Education Roundtable - Montclair State CHSS Island
Tuesday, April 29th, 2008
Open Forum

AJ Brooks: Well - lets get started. Welcome everyone. I'm AJ - the moderator. Today is another Open Forum of the SL Education Roundtable. We'll start out as we usually do, by introducing your self - you name, where you are, school type, what you do, whatever. No need to wait, everyone can type at once, we'll all see it in the chat history
AJ Brooks: I'm AJ Kelton, I’m the Director of Teaching and Emerging Technology for the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University in NJ
Martin Pattle: Martin Le Voi, Open University UK. I am a Psychologist
AJ Brooks: I am also the administrator for the island we are currently on
Topher Zwiers is from San Jacinto College in Houston, TX - an instructional technologist type - Director, Training & Emerging Technologies.
Birdie Newcomb: Birdie Newcomb, Beach College Academy, preparing for a Summer Camp
Robin Mochi: I'm the reference & distance services librarian from a small private liberal arts university, in Portland, Oregon, USA.
Roland Kellner: Jon Margerum-Leys, Eastern Michigan University, Ypsilanti, MI.
ScubaChris Wollongong: Chris Johnson - University of Arizona - variety of aspects of tech in education including Leadership and Learning Space Design
Xarielle Daviau: Karen Campbell, Instructional Designer at Rutgers University in New Jersey
Wainbrave Bernal: Jonathon Richter: University of Oregon
affrontimariana Arado: im mariana, im a technology teacher from Argentina
Kavon Zenovka: Kae from Front Range Community College Instructional designer/instructor/etc.rr
Wainbrave Bernal: hey Dewey!
Claire Nostram: hi - I’m Claire from the housing office at Montclair - I’m interested in using sl for housing info
Dewey Jung: hi all
Elysa Lowenhart is a PhD candidate in geography at NTNU in Norway.
Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA in Education student at Sonoma State University and I teach Life skills and other things in SL and the Teen grid.
tinkerbelle Kamm: belle from ucla
Joachim Thor: Joachim Uhl Bachelor of Science in Informatic from Munich/Germany
David Shea: I'm David Sze ... I teach math and stats online at various universities (more or less a full time adjunct)
Topher Zwiers: I'm also a PhD student at Texas A&M - Educational Psychology (Learning & Technology)
Silmaure Webelman: Hi I'm Silmaure, or Justin! I'm a student in California at the moment but have also worked in workforce development
Dewey Jung: I’m Craig Cunningham, National-Louis University in Chicago....professor in the technology in education program
AJ Brooks: anyone else?
Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Dewey
AJ Brooks: What a great crowd. welcome everyone
Dewey Jung: sorry Roland
AJ Brooks: One more question before we get rolling on a topic. how did you hear about today’s meeting. If a group, which group - and was it notice or IM, if a list, which list, if Events, which thread
Dewey Jung: am I sitting on anyone now??!??
Zotarah Shepherd: There is room for everyone to sit.
Kavon Zenovka: sled
Melvie Pawpaw: ISTE group notice
Robin Mochi: SLED
Martin Pattle: SLED events are in my Google Calendar
tinkerbelle Kamm: search events
ScubaChris Wollongong: ISTE notice - email and IM
Wainbrave Bernal: ISTE
Xarielle Daviau: NJ SL Educators
affrontimariana Arado: iste grouped notice and IM
Birdie Newcomb: Bridging, and ISTE
Dewey Jung: sled/iste/wainbrave
Roland Kellner: ISTE
David Shea: NJ SL educators
Xarielle Daviau: also probably ISTE
Elysa Lowenhart: I was her last week and got a notice from some community.
Wainbrave Bernal: ha ha
Zotarah Shepherd: From you AJ at a Bridging meeting
Joachim Thor: EDUCAUSE Virtual Worlds IM
Topher Zwiers: ISTE, Educause VW, three other groups ;-)
AJ Brooks: lol - yes - those of you on more than one gropu or list with me have to put up with me more than once. Excellent
Xarielle Daviau: we like you though AJ so its' okay :)
AJ Brooks: well -= it looks like the advertising efforst have paid off. :-) awww – thanks :-)
Zotarah Shepherd: I am glad your notices bring such a great group together AJ.
AJ Brooks: Ok - I'm gong to start off where we left off last week - David Shea has a topic he wanted to bring up and we ran out of time, so I'll let him get startted
Wainbrave Bernal: even when you echo ;)
affrontimariana Arado: im new here... i dont know the topic
Martin Pattle: can I just ask if its OK to log chat
Topher Zwiers: even when you echo :)
David Shea: Thanks AJ ... my question was, if you wanted to go to just one event (more than this one), to talk one on one to other educators, where would you go?
Dewey Jung: ooooh, that was cool
AJ Brooks: you mean RL event, david
Wainbrave Bernal: was that the purple pill?
David Shea: Well, maybe both RL and SL
AJ Brooks: no - it was the MystiTool Table. lol
Wainbrave Bernal: ah
Birdie Newcomb: ISTE
Dewey Jung: ISTE social, thursdays
Roland Kellner: Probably ISTE Thursdays.
Dewey Jung: hopefully not when they are dressed as cheerleaders :-)
David Shea: I went to one ISTE Thursday (social) but it seemed to be more of a classroom mentality?
Topher Zwiers: NMC Buzz Sessions
Kavon Zenovka: CC in SL
AJ Brooks: by saying YES - how many peopel here have been to an ISTE social THursday?
Roland Kellner: Yes
Dewey Jung: yes
Wainbrave Bernal: me
Birdie Newcomb: yes
David Shea: I heard that the NMC Buzz sessions have been canceled?
Martin Pattle: I don't know ISTE
Topher Zwiers: Community College in Second Life (CCSL tht Kavon mentioend)
Zotarah Shepherd: yes
Claire Nostram: no
Kavon Zenovka: not a social but other meetings
Topher Zwiers: that explains why I haven't seen one lately ;-) we are talking SL though - not RL conference type opportuntiies?
Wainbrave Bernal: really? NMC Buzz is no more?
affrontimariana Arado: soory, please explain me ¿what are we doing here? ¿talking about what??
David Shea: I've had several suggestions from others about RL - ISTE in San Antonio, something in Wisconsin in August, Florida something in January,
Xarielle Daviau: Wisconsin in August is a games conference you're referring to, I believe
AJ Brooks: As for RL events, I swear by EDUCAUSE, especailly the Annual COnference
David Shea: But right now, I'm more wondering about a regular thing here in SL
Roland Kellner: Distance ed conference in Madison in August is another possibility.
Topher Zwiers: for RL - I'd suggest NMC Summer Conference (, Educause Learning Initiative (ELI, January-ish) and Educause Regionals
Kavon Zenovka: RlL - League of Innovations this year was good
AJ Brooks: WEll - I'm partial to the SL Education Roundtable on Tuesdays. :-)
Birdie Newcomb: Regular like once a week? Once a semester?
Wainbrave Bernal: SLCC Tampa in Florida is gonna be good
Topher Zwiers: and for community college folks - League of Innovation CIT
Lehnerd Euler: Every Friday, the immersive education group meets ...part of the media grid
Dewey Jung: in part it depends on whether your focus is k-12 or higher ed
David Shea: this is a good list ... I'll have to catch up on the archive!
AJ Brooks: SLCC is a good RL thing to do, I was in Chicago and it was great
Topher Zwiers: for weekly discussions in SL - I'm currently been able to make two on a regular basis - this one and the Community College in SL meetings (used to be Fridays; moving to Sunday, I think).
Kavon Zenovka: Other than CC in SL my decision is based on what time it is scheduled
AJ Brooks: OK - David, you good with the responses?
Topher Zwiers: I've wanted to make ISTE event, but I teach Tue/Thu evenings.
AJ Brooks: o - I think David has enough to digest. plus - eventually I'll get transcripts up. sorry abotu that folks, I'll catch up eventually
tinkerbelle Kamm: aj.......what r we discussing here???
David Shea: yes!
AJ Brooks: when I do get them up - thell be in the bldg next to us. This is an open forum. peopel bring their own ideas and thoughts
Elysa Lowenhart: I've thought about the time as well, as I miss most of the US activites that are in the afternoon or night SL-time.
AJ Brooks: someimes we have focused dicusssions, sometimes not
tinkerbelle Kamm: is it about sl or rl or both
AJ Brooks: it is about education. it can be sl or rl, but we focus on SL (or virtual worlds)
Birdie Newcomb: I'd like to ask aquestion.
AJ Brooks: I'd like to let Elysa ask her question
Birdie Newcomb: How many of us herehave students that are under and over 18 in the same class?
AJ Brooks: ok
affrontimariana Arado: me, but they dont use sl
Birdie Newcomb: That's the question -- how do you do it?
Kavon Zenovka: I have.
AJ Brooks: lets address this one, but then I promised Elysa time for her question
Birdie Newcomb: Sure, soorry for jumping in.
AJ Brooks: s'ok one of thechallenges with IM
Robin Mochi: My understanding is that you could not have those ages together. Under 18 would need to be in teen sl, correct?
Birdie Newcomb: So, how do you handle it? With Sloodle? Is that enough?
Birdie Newcomb: Or just on the Web?
AJ Brooks: i was teaching frehsman copm in the fall. I had to have the student watch along until she was old enough
Joachim Thor: Sloodle? What's this?
AJ Brooks: i teach hybrid, so
ScubaChris Wollongong: Sloodle - open source LMS
Joachim Thor: Like Moodle?
affrontimariana Arado: sloodle = moodle + Sl isnt it?
Birdie Newcomb: You mean with streaming video?
Dewey Jung:
14:52] Robin Mochi: Yes sloodle is SL plus Moodle.
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes Aff
Joachim Thor: uh .... interesting .... didn't know that
Birdie Newcomb: Yes, Sloodle is just Moodle on SL
Kavon Zenovka: The under -18 did watch on the instructor computer, but for the group part of the project I let them decide what portion they wanted to do. It was not a class that required all the students be in world at the same time.
AJ Brooks: how many people here teach either frehsman in college or seniors in high school, say YES
AJ Brooks: YES
Birdie Newcomb: yes
Kavon Zenovka: yes
Birdie Newcomb: (ort will soon)
Elysa Lowenhart: occasionally yes
David Shea: sort of
Lehnerd Euler: have in the past....
Martin Pattle: NO
Seeker Schussel: no
AJ Brooks: ok - so a small subset of us
Claire Nostram: no
Melvie Pawpaw: no
ScubaChris Wollongong: Another way of looking at that is how many of you know if you are teaching under 18 freshman
Zotarah Shepherd: sometimes
Birdie Newcomb: Good point. I don't ask.
AJ Brooks: Bridie brings up some intersting points, perhaps we need to focus a future SL EDUCATION ROUNDATBLE on cross over
Zotarah Shepherd: college freshmen
Kavon Zenovka: because of the SL project I asked; otherwise I wouldn't.
AJ Brooks: Birde, can we chat after he meeting and plan something for next meeting? focus on bridging issues
Birdie Newcomb: OK.
Zotarah Shepherd: Yay AJ
Birdie Newcomb: I'm beginning to think Bridging is not enough
AJ Brooks: Hey - alwsy oepn for good topics and this on is so important
Dewey Jung: this will be moot within a year or two, as the "Education grid" takes shape
ScubaChris Wollongong: AJ - could I possibly host that as part of my work?
Lehnerd Euler: bridging won't be enough....
Lehnerd Euler: it should be more of a merging...
AJ Brooks: hang out after the meeting - lets talk if I may, Elysa - the flor is yours
Birdie Newcomb: So I got some answer -- no easy solution.
Elysa Lowenhart: Are anyone working with other VWs as well, and what are the advantages/downsides compared to SL?
AJ Brooks: ok, lets start with this. AJ Brooks: by saying YES - how many of you have ever been in another virtual world
Robin Mochi: I have just begun investigating QWAQ...
Martin Pattle: I ry to get in OSGRID, but there is nothing there
Kavon Zenovka: yes
Robin Mochi: yes
Melvie Pawpaw: yes
Dewey Jung: yes
David Shea: I became more interested in SL when I read an article in a business journal comparing SL to others
Zotarah Shepherd: SL is the best I have seen so far so why do other VW?
AJ Brooks: I'd be intersted in that article
ScubaChris Wollongong: yes
Dewey Jung: me too
Zotarah Shepherd: Me too
David Shea: do you read French? The article is in French
Joachim Thor: me also ;-) ups
Lehnerd Euler: by this time next month the immersive ed group will be starting to explore wonderland and croquet
Dewey Jung: oui
AJ Brooks: so - for those of you (I can get it translated)
David Shea: "Il y a une vie apres Second Life ... 7 mars 2008 issue of Les Affaires"
Robin Mochi: yes, QWAQ is part of opencroquet
Zotarah Shepherd: hmmm I have a friend who could translate it.
AJ Brooks: so - for those of you who said yes - why SL over somethign else
Martin Pattle: I looked at croquet: again nothing very interesting
Silmaure Webelman: SL is good becasue there's always lots of people
ScubaChris Wollongong: You can form some really rich relationships
Dewey Jung: it's about critical mass, i think
Melvie Pawpaw: people on line, educationally relevant events are important to me
Kavon Zenovka: open sim looked liked SL on a computer with a bad graphics card
Zotarah Shepherd: Rich content here and easy to create community and build things that stay.
Wainbrave Bernal: We're launching our Wonderland server and getting hooked into the Education Grid in a few weeks
Topher Zwiers: I've looked at a few others - but the education community in SL is the asset that keeps me here.
AJ Brooks: what other worlds are there and/or have you been on/in?
Martin Pattle: Yes, the content counts for ne hell of a lot in SL
Wainbrave Bernal: woot! woot! for SLED!
Robin Mochi: One advantage of QWAQ and some other virtual worlds is the ability to share applications. This is huge for reference librarians trying to show students the "how to" of database searching
Wainbrave Bernal: Wonderland has that capacity too
Zotarah Shepherd: The biggest challenge with a SL Edu grid is getting the content we have here to the other grid.
Dewey Jung: i think SL will, when we have "html on a prim" coming soon
Robin Mochi: I would much rather use SL, however...
Martin Pattle: Zotarah, we have that problem too on Schome project
Wainbrave Bernal: Daniel Livingstone was just showing me html on a prim here in SL a few days ago
Robin Mochi: I do not see how html on a prim can help...
Wainbrave Bernal: it's here
Robin Mochi: I could be wrong, and I thought we already had that...
David Shea: My stepdaughter goes on these kids' grids all the time - many / most of her friends go on there too (like Club Penguin)
Mercury Barnes: I'm hearing about a Flash API addition to SL as well.
Dewey Jung: won't you be able to use Applause!! sharing in sl, with that?
Zotarah Shepherd: Schome is closed right?
Wainbrave Bernal: Flash in SL would be suite
Dewey Jung: um, i mean, application sharing :-)
Robin Mochi: I don't know what Applause is?
AJ Brooks: lol what are some of the other worlds
Wainbrave Bernal:
AJ Brooks: ANyone use There or Active Worlds
Dewey Jung: lol, it was a pre-programmed gesture, Robin.....a.p.p is set to mean "Applause" instead of "application"
Zotarah Shepherd: There looks so cartoonish compared to SL.
Wainbrave Bernal: Google has a thing in beta at Arizona State I hear
Mercury Barnes: Several of my neighbors are "There Refugees" -- one said they mostly talk about when they'll be moving to SL.
AJ Brooks: we've had a meeting on that - I'mworking ont he transcrip[t now. I don't think its a "thing"
Wainbrave Bernal: does look so cartoonish, but there are def some educators in it
Robin Mochi: The other issue is the lack of stability with SL, was anyone else trying to get into the immersive ed. event last week?
Lehnerd Euler: The opportunity in SL is the ability to create the environment..
Zotarah Shepherd: I would not like to loose the collaboration we have here with the business community and social activities.
Mercury Barnes: Yes, did for several, great sessions.
Kavon Zenovka: yes got there at the last minute
Lehnerd Euler: as much can be learned by simple building...for example in mathematics...
Topher Zwiers: It's not just creating the environment, it's retaining the rights to whatever you create as well.
AJ Brooks: amen
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes
Lehnerd Euler: the experience is much more immersive...
Robin Mochi: I would love to use SL, but the stability problems and the lack of shared applications is what is keeping me from moving forward at this time...
Topher Zwiers: That's as important as anything else, imho.
Robin Mochi: And I really do love SL, it's far more interesting and has the most potential in many ways.
Mercury Barnes: Voice...:)
Topher Zwiers: hopefully, the new LL CEO will be able to deliver on improved stability and user interface.
AJ Brooks: I've taught almost an entire semester, tonight is out last night - and I must say we have had relatively problem free classes - so stabilty isn't such an issue I don't think. let me clarify that, I mean for holding a class, certainly there are stability issues
Martin Pattle: what about student bandwidth when hey are at home
Joachim Thor: i don't think that the interface is a problem .... but stability is
AJ Brooks: I didn't mean to sound like I was saying there are not. AJ Brooks: the dorms have been more of a problem
Dewey Jung: (regarding HTML on a prim....i found an article from late march saying it had been released on a test it now in the main version?)
Topher Zwiers: Joachim - I have the same opinion; I don't think the interface is horrible, but the "terrible" interface always gets mention as one of the problems with SL.
Mercury Barnes: Color, keys,???
Wainbrave Bernal: oh - we are both using the Release Candidate
Joachim Thor: HTML on a prim? think its in the RC
Martin Pattle: I have had to switch to Release Candidate to get an iMac to work
Birdie Newcomb: I can't use the Release Candidate -- have they imporoved it?
Dewey Jung: (yeah, thought it wasn't in the main viewer yet)
Martin Pattle: Yes the RC is fab on iMac
Unklar Klaar: /tab
Wainbrave Bernal: well the interface is "horrible" from one perspective, and "cream pie" from another
Zotarah Shepherd: It is a matter of degree. Some students do not have a computer at home. Does that mean we should not use them in schools? I think we should use the best of what is available now and work to make the technology available to students.
Dewey Jung: there are legal issues using SL in education as well....anyone thought much about those?
Birdie Newcomb: What issues?
Robin Mochi: dewey, what types of legal issues?
Dewey Jung: some say it violates FERPA
Mercury Barnes: The Lindens are listening to this guy...Second Life 1.20.4 (85841) Apr 26 2008 13:32:17 (Kirstens Viewer R7)...and he makes changes that I bitch about...the RC's are already showing the changes.
Dewey Jung: federal educational rights privacy act
Kavon Zenovka: We haven't run across the FERPA issue
Robin Mochi: I do not see how it violates FERPA at all.
Micki Kahane: in what way, dewey?
AJ Brooks: you can't share grades in SL
Topher Zwiers: Zotarah - I had this conversation locally this past week - I don't see SL as a DL platform at the moment; sure it can be. For my institution, we'll be using it as a hybrid/supplement activity for f2f classes for a while.
Kavon Zenovka: What part would it violate?
Silmaure Webelman: yeah pretty much anything you ever say or do is recorded
Mercury Barnes: Property too -- our campus doesn't recognize the concept of "virtual things," eventhough they let us buy software.:)
Dewey Jung: well, i am not a lawyer
Kavon Zenovka: Now IP rights for instructors may be another thing
Mercury Barnes: Can't publish or intimate student identity -- it is an issue.
Dewey Jung: but since linden "owns" everything that happens here, and Linden has no commitment to FERPA, that might cause problems, or so I hear
Martin Pattle: I am UK: FERPA doesn't apply!
Robin Mochi: Topher, we are looking to possibly use SL as a hybrid/supplement as well.
Topher Zwiers: Mercury - the MIT folks (Phillip Long) has talked about this - it's a matter of reducing SL to what it is - leasing server space and using software.
AJ Brooks: FERPA is federal law
Kavon Zenovka: You can publish basic student info unless students have filed no-release paperwork
Wainbrave Bernal: there's the web-access SL version too now, which may make FERPA easier to comply with
Mercury Barnes: Yes, the MIT model does work, but it depends, currently, on "one guy." (we've explored it).
Zotarah Shepherd: How would using SL be any different than using Web CT or a blog for a class?
Topher Zwiers: from what I know of FERPA, as long as you don't release grades - why would it be an issue? No different than learners posting on blogs, wikis, etc... or using an LMS.
AJ Brooks: I believe only releasing grades is a violation
Mercury Barnes: Identity -- that's the issue....
AJ Brooks: oh - of course
Mercury Barnes: Identity as well.
AJ Brooks: authentication is the issue
Topher Zwiers: in fact, seems like SL would better protect learner identity than the web.
Dewey Jung: um, when a university uses WebCT, the Uni owns the records....not a private company (lLL)
Kavon Zenovka: where you think student identity would be given out?
Mercury Barnes: It has to be in the contract, if so, then you're fine...just like any contract for services.
Wainbrave Bernal: hmmm... I thought it was an access issue for people who couldn't see or hear or... they couldn't navigate
Martin Pattle: Isn't the idea of Sloodle that it interfaces with the Univeristy Moodle record database?
Dewey Jung: students must give their "real" identity when setting up an account
AJ Brooks: there is adaptiation software for that
Topher Zwiers: I think the use of it is definitely ahead of the legal concerns, and hopefully, the LL approach to providing secure/behind your own firewall servers will alleviate that concern eventually.
Mercury Barnes: SL does need to add the Shibboleth model for ID management, then FERPA become much easier to maintain.
Zotarah Shepherd: Wouldn't it be the same if a university owned a private island where they taught classes?
Topher Zwiers: Accessibility is a critical issue.
Dewey Jung: topher, i agree, eventually it will
Wainbrave Bernal: AJ - is the adaptation software yet sufficient to comply with FERPA though?
AJ Brooks: that I don't know
Topher Zwiers: and even then, having a private island should resolve some of those concerns.
Mercury Barnes: If Shibboleth "based," then yes (for AJ).
AJ Brooks: well - we have three upcoming meeting topics, from tonights meeting
Topher Zwiers: Wainbrave - "adaptation" software - is there an accessibility component to FERPA?
AJ Brooks: SL and other Virtual Worlds is one
Mercury Barnes: No, but many states have them.
AJ Brooks: Bridging Issues is another and SL and the Law is the third
Topher Zwiers: most of the legal discussions I've seen around SL focus on IPR/content issues/copybot type stuff..I think the edtech community is ahead of our institutions' legal teams ;-)
AJ Brooks: add FERPA to that and it should be a regular food fight
Birdie Newcomb: Which is a murky topiceven in RL
Mercury Barnes: Hippa, Ferpa, Coppa, CIppa -- probably other "a's" I've forgotten about....:)
AJ Brooks: lol
Mercury Barnes: Agreed Birdie.
AJ Brooks: better than TLAs
Wainbrave Bernal: Topher, I thought that was what the SL issue centered on... just from my sliced up memory
Lehnerd Euler: Asa businesses move information from their enterprise systems in, you can bet the security issues will be addressed
Topher Zwiers: re: institution "owns" the records of a WebCT/Bb installation - thhose are still hosted....
AJ Brooks nods
Topher Zwiers: as long as records aren't kept in SL - doesn't seem like there'd be FERPA issues...
Mercury Barnes: Never do a "State-wide" 4-H web site for middle/high school -- you won't survive...:)
AJ Brooks: sometimes lol
Topher Zwiers: yes.. sometimes hosted.
Kavon Zenovka: I don't see obvious FERPA issues either.
Dewey Jung: the thing is, LL "owns" more than the university controls....and that is a violation of FERPA, as I see it
Dewey Jung: student "work" (records of stuff they have done) are outside university a result of university choices about platform
Zotarah Shepherd: So are other countries more flexible in using SL as a teaching platform then the US?
Topher Zwiers: there's definitely a need for institutions to begin including in FERPA training how to use or not use VW's... not sending grades via IM etc.
Dewey Jung: and i don't think it's just about grades, btw
Claire Nostram: wha else?
Elysa Lowenhart: I don't think we'd have any problems using SL in Norway, as long as the students are 18+
Topher Zwiers: Dewey - I could imagine that the LL ToS could be at odds with FERPA...
Mercury Barnes: Universities can contract with "others for services," pretty easily, if the "legals," are in line -- Linden was (hopefully not still is) weak in this area.
Zotarah Shepherd: Grades can be sent via other means
Kavon Zenovka: but that's usually true in any expertential learning project
Silmaure Webelman: what exactly are the FERPA issues?
Martin Pattle thinks we need a non-USA break-out group here
Mercury Barnes: Can't release identity.
Kavon Zenovka: non-disclosure of all student records
Dewey Jung: i'm sorry to have raised the US legal issues....we should shelve that for now
Mercury Barnes: And that means can't release it to the Lindens without extraordinary protections (thus my Shibboleth comment).
AJ Brooks: that is probably best for an entire meeting. I have a question
Kavon Zenovka: You can idenitfy students - name, address, grade level - basics usally decided by the institution
Zotarah Shepherd: I think we USers can learn from what other countries are doing and we do have some similar issues too.
Elysa Lowenhart would also like daytime sessions
AJ Brooks: If you could have your choice of a guest speaker for one of our meetings, who would it be?
Mercury Barnes: No.
Kavon Zenovka: think about honors reports in newspaers - name, where they are fomr , major all okay according to ferpa
Mercury Barnes: We have a hell of time even getting their e-mail address to the instructor.
AJ Brooks: I hate to damper an intersting and importatn discussion, but…:-)
Mercury Barnes: k :)
Kavon Zenovka: Then your institution may have set up additional restrictions and may be relating these back to FERPA
AJ Brooks: We're almost out of time. Before we go, I'd like to know
David Shea: I'm a concrete kind of person - I'd like to see an actual class session that works in SL ... more than a speaker saying "it was good in general"
AJ Brooks: who you would be intersted in seeing as a guest speaker
Zotarah Shepherd thinks an hour is too short to cover important issues.
Topher Zwiers: that was an hour?!?! wow. time flies.
AJ Brooks: close. i know - these have all been great meetings. I'm glad folks are enjoying them. I know there are other meetings that go on, at other times, and with other focii
Robin Mochi: I would have to think about your question, AJ
AJ Brooks: share ith met outside the meeting, thats fine
Topher Zwiers: anyone know a FERPA expert? ;-)
AJ Brooks: I'd like to try bringing in a guest speaker. lol
Kavon Zenovka: Maybe it is one of those "def educators" in the other virtual worlds
Topher Zwiers: exactly not the job title I'd want <Grin>
AJ Brooks whaps Chris
Kavon Zenovka: I get to play with FERPA at my college
Topher Zwiers: ow.
ScubaChris Wollongong: :)
AJ Brooks: lol, lucky you, kavon
David Shea: It could be worse than FERPA ... I was on an IRB for a couple of years
Kavon Zenovka: and interpret for the online learning department
Topher Zwiers just pictured a WebKinz named FERPA that Kavon has.
AJ Brooks: lol
Dewey Jung: there's an online symposium that was done at Iowa State that talks about these issues, btw....i can get the URL if anyone wants's a video archive
Topher Zwiers: they should add an extra letter to IRB - so it'd be four letters...
AJ Brooks: that woul dbe great
Kavon Zenovka: It pretty basic but different schols can kind of interpret it differently
Zotarah Shepherd: I would Dewey
Elysa Lowenhart: IRBA?
Topher Zwiers: me too Dewey.
AJ Brooks: anyone presenting on SL someplace? Want to plug an event
Robin Mochi: I would like to throw out one last question, if there's time.
AJ Brooks: ok
Robin Mochi: Has anyone her been able to share an application in SL during a class...
Robin Mochi: for instance... say you had a Google doc you wanted to share with the group...
Mercury Barnes: Puglet Dancer or someone she recommends for the Univ. of Illinois Graduate School of Library and Information Science (they've been very active in SL, quietly....:)
Robin Mochi: I can create a notecard, or html on a prim, but the class can't all see. what I'm doing and give input. Do you know what I mean.
Topher Zwiers: I haven't tried, but don't think I'd want to -- I'd lean toward using other tools for that, particularly if I have a class meeting syncrhonously - jump from SL to another tool that does it more effecitvely (Yugma Skype?)
AJ Brooks: you mean while you are doing it? Yes - Topher, that is what I do with my class
EmceeMike Hax: I've seen Croquet do that, but it's still not widely adopted
AJ Brooks: WE routinely have Firefox, Word, and SL open
Robin Mochi: yes, while I'm teaching a class, I want to show them something say, actually how to do something that involves an application.
Mercury Barnes: Must be nice....AJ...:)
Martin Pattle: Surely something like Elluminate is best for that?
AJ Brooks: many of our students come from very urban communities, these kids don't have special computers at home. they use the labs or they ahve a good enough computer
Robin Mochi: I can see good reasons to be able to do that (share applications) within SL.
AJ Brooks: the problem I've had is not the technology, its the motivation of the student to want to lern
Kavon Zenovka: We've had the motivation thing too.
AJ Brooks: many of them are lazy
David Shea: really, AJ? :)
Mercury Barnes: That's why SL can be nice -- especially voice -- allows that critical "one on one" "heart to heart" with a troubled student.
AJ Brooks: yes
Kavon Zenovka: Don't want to learn a new technology or go outside their comfort zone
Claire Nostram: some have poor reading skills
AJ Brooks: they only want to do just enough to get through to get the degrww, thats it. Not all of them, of course. many are there to learn most are there because its whats expected of them
Zotarah Shepherd: Do you think students are too coddled in early grades?
David Shea: I found that online students are frequently more motivated - older, a lot of them are paying for it themselves
Kavon Zenovka: No not all - we've been trying to have them do projects that use Web 2.0 applications
AJ Brooks: i dn't know what they go through in early grades to be able to say that
Kavon Zenovka: I agree David - the online students have taken to SL more than the same F2F classes
Topher Zwiers: Ther'es good reasons to be able to share applications, but I don't know if SL is hte best place for that - certainly not right now, but even in the future, seems like it'd be better to let SL do what it does and use other applications for other things...
AJ Brooks: A note, it is now 3:30pm
Mercury Barnes: Talked one into reading Albert Camus' "The Plague," after listening to a diatribe about his "Strangers" book -- only voice, and the shared trust we'd built, did it.
AJ Brooks: and we promised to end at that time. I'm going to hang out
Robin Mochi: thanks topher. You may be correct, though it saddens me.
AJ Brooks: and you are welcome to also. but if you need to take off
Zotarah Shepherd throws a rock at AJs watch.
AJ Brooks: please remember we meet here each Tuesday at 2:30pm PDT
David Shea: That article about SL that I mentioned earlier ... here is the URL -
Lehnerd Euler: I have always found it somewhat ironic that there has been a lot of talk about being able to share applications and documents that pre date the a web 3D enviro.
Mercury Barnes: Whice give me a good excuse to leave early on Tuesdays -- thanks. :)
[15:31] MystiTool HUD 1.0.23: Entering chat range: Seeker Schussel (6m)
[15:31] Topher Zwiers: I could see SL being able to handle web apps a little better - perhaps accessing something like Elluminate through SL - which would have the same effect, I think - but not SL doing it natively.
Mercury Barnes: The Flash API -- just a rumour, but it could be cool...:)
Kavon Zenovka: Elluminate's been great with our online students; but SL text and voice seems to be more engagin
Robin Mochi: Lehnerd, it has to do with teaching/learning. I use databases, which I must show the "how to" to my students. I need them to be able to see what I'm talking about. I would rather stay in SL and not use Elluminate or other programs for these distance students.
Mercury Barnes: Eluminate cost us 50K -- that's a support person to make SL work, and SL voice is better (way, way better).
Topher Zwiers: David - Google's French to English translation of same article -
Zotarah Shepherd: I would like to see a machinima stream like SLCN devoted to education.
Lehnerd Euler: Oh I agree, I just find it ironic... :-)
Robin Mochi: yes, I agree.
Mercury Barnes: Agreed on the machinima..:)
David Shea: That's one disadvantage of voice, though ... when you don't know the people, it's hard to tell who is talking ...
Wainbrave Bernal: multimedia = multimodal, esp in these immersive environments
Topher Zwiers: Robin - would there be a way to "show" learners how a database works by visualizing it differently in SL? rather than simply using it to transfer other, more traditional tools into SL?
Zotarah Shepherd: Wonder what it would take for SLCN to open another channel for that.
Dewey Jung: okay, whew, found that symposium URL.....took a while
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks Dewey
AJ Brooks: awesome
Robin Mochi: Topher, maybe, I'll think about that.
Lehnerd Euler: Topher- thats kind of what I am getting at...society is still locked....
Robin Mochi: Thanks all!
Martin Pattle: I saw a Turing Machine simulator in SL
Mercury Barnes: There's always a graphical way to make a can take work, but database "normalization" could easily be a SIM that "stuck in the minds of the kids."
Lehnerd Euler: into previous ways of thinking and doing
Martin Pattle: It was prett cool
Kavon Zenovka: Robin what do you teach?
Mercury Barnes: The "graveyard as a Library" concept still rings true with me -- a good mix of social and information....:)
Robin Mochi: I teach library research/instruction classes
Robin Mochi: mostly to graduate and doctoral students
Topher Zwiers: I hit on this topic recently - but focused on more traditional tools - "Stop Quizzing Learners in SL!!" -
Robin Mochi: many are from a distance.
Topher Zwiers: I'd have to sit and give it in depth thought - but I'd focus on how to use the unique capabilities of SL to teach the content rather than trying to wedge an application sharing app into SL.
Kavon Zenovka: I understand now - Elluminate would be easy.
Mercury Barnes: Yes Topher.
AJ Brooks nods
Topher Zwiers: or making SL do something that it's not designed to do..
Robin Mochi: thanks for all the great links. I have to run. No, Kavon. I've used Elluminate, and I would go with QWAQ before using that.
Lehnerd Euler: And its not going to be easy....but when done right...very powerful
Mercury Barnes: However, Voice is the "but it's cheaper than Elluminate" way to get SL in the door.
AJ Brooks: bye robin
Topher Zwiers: bye Robin!
Topher Zwiers: enjoyed the discussion!
Robin Mochi: bye all, thanks again!
AJ Brooks: ttys
Dewey Jung: well, people want to solve all of their educational problems with just one's the mentality of a course management system; which SL is not
Mercury Barnes: The 20+ second lag with Elluminate is a killer -- moves it into the Realm of Real Server streaming lectures.
AJ Brooks: agreed, SL is a tool – one - of many
Mercury Barnes: True, SL is a tool, but the issue ultimately becomes one of support, and who does it, and saying "it'll magically get done," is not an acceptable answer.
Wainbrave Bernal: SL is a set of tools in a set of sets
Lehnerd Euler: Some of these topics are bound to come up in the Rez-ed space as well....
AJ Brooks: But it WILL magically get done – LOL - just kidding
Topher Zwiers: Dewey - exactly...
Zotarah Shepherd: SL is best used in conjunction with other programs and SL is a good media to bring them together too.
AJ Brooks: addressing the support issue, it will happen over time. call it magically if you want, but it will happen over time. As it has with email or the telphone
Mercury Barnes: People do hate the Web CT "thingee," but are kind of trapped as they've built so many adminitrative solutions around it.
AJ Brooks: :-)
Topher Zwiers: have an hour or so before my evening class meets... AJ... enjoyed it, as usual.. thanks all!
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks AJ
AJ Brooks: yes - We're in world tonight - our last in world class. Bye Chris, Later Z
Zotarah Shepherd: I wish you all the best with your class AJ.
Kavon Zenovka: I have to run also - thanks everyone! Bye! Dewey - I'm listening to the ISU presentation in the background.
AJ Brooks: Thanks for coming
Dewey Jung: hope it's helpful
AJ Brooks: we'll be back next Tue, come back. :)
Mercury Barnes: k, go get ready -- make sure you "party down" with the kids (we were even allowed to bring wine to the last class -- Cornell, being private, could make it's "own" rules. :).
Claire Nostram: great meeting - thanks AJ
David Shea: Enjoyed it AJ ... this should be my once-per-week activity!